Streamer losing its playlist, and Incorrect items showing in playlist

[simoncn]

(20-07-2014 12:37)rweten Wrote:  When the playlist problems occurred, the PC was never suspended/hibernated. There was no power interruption (the PC has a battery it would switch to anyway) and the NAS is on a UPS. It is running on the wired connection only and the wireless connection is disabled.

The router and switches would lose power in this case. This might interrupt a UPnP connection between the DS and Kinsky.

Edit: On reflection, a power interruption couldn't be the cause because it would also cause the DS to reboot.

Quote:The power management option was checked on the ethernet connection, and I've now unchecked it. The wireless connection doesn't offer me the alternative, though that might be because it's disabled at the moment. I'd be surprised if this had been an issue, though, as the problems have sometimes occurred during a period when I've been actively working on the PC, so it would be odd indeed if the NIC card had been deactivated by the system.

Richard

I'm not sure exactly sure how the power-saving disconnection works. I do know that things improved for me when I unchecked this on my wireless adapter.

[rweten]

(20-07-2014 21:41)simoncn Wrote:  Please can you try updating MinimServer so that it falls over overnight, then restart it and try the logtruncate command. This will confirm whether something in logtruncate is responsible for the problem.

I will need to wait for the next package update to be able to do that. At the moment, since changing the clock settings, I haven't had any problems. I'll let you know as soon as I get a recurrence.

R

[rweten]

(20-07-2014 22:38)simoncn Wrote:  Edit: On reflection, a power interruption couldn't be the cause because it would also cause the DS to reboot.

The switch is also on UPS. The only thing that could have got knocked over would have been the DS.

As an illustration, I was listening with a friend the other evening, and there was a sudden click, or (light) crack, and the music stopped. There was no other electrical interruption; the PC stayed running, the server stayed running and the DS was still up but with nothing in its playlist. No flicker from the lights, no report of interruption from the UPS, nothing to suggest power failure.

[simoncn]

(22-07-2014 08:42)rweten Wrote:  I will need to wait for the next package update to be able to do that. At the moment, since changing the clock settings, I haven't had any problems. I'll let you know as soon as I get a recurrence.

R

I might have misunderstood something about the effect that updates and reinstalling are havng on this. When you work around the problem by reinstalling, does this mean you are reverting back to the original package with no updates, or did you do something when you reinstalled that enables you to use the current update level (update 31)?

[simoncn]

(22-07-2014 08:49)rweten Wrote:  The switch is also on UPS. The only thing that could have got knocked over would have been the DS.

As an illustration, I was listening with a friend the other evening, and there was a sudden click, or (light) crack, and the music stopped. There was no other electrical interruption; the PC stayed running, the server stayed running and the DS was still up but with nothing in its playlist. No flicker from the lights, no report of interruption from the UPS, nothing to suggest power failure.

From your description, it sounds like you had a hardware issue that caused either a momentary power interruption to the DS or a momentary loss of connectivity between the DS and the switch. The former would cause the DS to crash and lose its playlist information. The latter would cause Kinsky to lose its playlist information even though the playlist information is still held within the DS. This might explain why the "lost" playlist titles reappear later.

Is it possible that your UPS is faulty and this has momentarily interrupted power to the GS108 switch? Another possibility is that the power supply or power cable of the GS108 is faulty and this is causing it to lose power momentarily. Either of these could cause the symptoms you described, including the subsequent loss of connectivity between MinimWatch on your PC and MinimServer on your NAS.

Edit: You could confirm the theory of a power loss to the GS108 by disconecting and reconnecting power to the GS108 while you are playing music. Does this cause the same set of symptoms that you are experiencing in the failure scenario?

[Linn_agnostik]

I have a similar issue running on ADS1 - sometimes the music stops and the playlist disappears. Mine is connected via a 5Ghz Network bridge to my server and IT IS a network issue. Running cable (when the wife and kids are OK) is bulletproof and never misses a beat, unfortunately the WAF factor is low...

Regarding the other bits of the puzzle - I also have a UPS, which performs a somewhat irregular self-test function, where it switches over briefly (usually a second) over to batteries and then back to AC again. This sometimes causes spikes and my older router reboots.

I would suggest remedies in the following order:
1) Update router firmware.
2) Make sure that you use 5Ghz wherever necessary and not the 2,4Ghz wavelength... It only takes one neighbor to micro popcorn to bring down a whole house' 2,4Ghz network
3) Update switch firmware
4) place them both off the UPS
5) remove switch temporarily off the setup, use only the router
6) Try a different router and switch

Hope this helps. I am 100% certain it is a network issue

[rweten]

(22-07-2014 09:44)simoncn Wrote:  I might have misunderstood something about the effect that updates and reinstalling are havng on this. When you work around the problem by reinstalling, does this mean you are reverting back to the original package with no updates, or did you do something when you reinstalled that enables you to use the current update level (update 31)?

What I mean is that I would have started out with (say) an install running from package 29. I patch that to take it up to 31 and the problem starts. I uninstall entirely, take a fresh install package from your site (so right up to package 31 inclusive) and reinstall the problem using that.

Fixes the problem (of the server falling over nightly) every time. It only goes wrong again when the next update package arrives and I patch it over my existing install. That's what gives the problem.

Note, however, that I've had no chance to go through an update cycle since fixing the clock problem discussed earlier.

[rweten]

(22-07-2014 10:09)simoncn Wrote:  

(22-07-2014 08:49)rweten Wrote:  The switch is also on UPS. The only thing that could have got knocked over would have been the DS.

As an illustration, I was listening with a friend the other evening, and there was a sudden click, or (light) crack, and the music stopped. There was no other electrical interruption; the PC stayed running, the server stayed running and the DS was still up but with nothing in its playlist. No flicker from the lights, no report of interruption from the UPS, nothing to suggest power failure.

From your description, it sounds like you had a hardware issue that caused either a momentary power interruption to the DS or a momentary loss of connectivity between the DS and the switch. The former would cause the DS to crash and lose its playlist information. The latter would cause Kinsky to lose its playlist information even though the playlist information is still held within the DS. This might explain why the "lost" playlist titles reappear later.

Is it possible that your UPS is faulty and this has momentarily interrupted power to the GS108 switch? Another possibility is that the power supply or power cable of the GS108 is faulty and this is causing it to lose power momentarily. Either of these could cause the symptoms you described, including the subsequent loss of connectivity between MinimWatch on your PC and MinimServer on your NAS.

Edit: You could confirm the theory of a power loss to the GS108 by disconecting and reconnecting power to the GS108 while you are playing music. Does this cause the same set of symptoms that you are experiencing in the failure scenario?

I'll test that and see. R

[rweten]

(22-07-2014 14:41)Linn_agnostik Wrote:  I have a similar issue running on ADS1 - sometimes the music stops and the playlist disappears. Mine is connected via a 5Ghz Network bridge to my server and IT IS a network issue. Running cable (when the wife and kids are OK) is bulletproof and never misses a beat, unfortunately the WAF factor is low...

Regarding the other bits of the puzzle - I also have a UPS, which performs a somewhat irregular self-test function, where it switches over briefly (usually a second) over to batteries and then back to AC again. This sometimes causes spikes and my older router reboots.

I would suggest remedies in the following order:
1) Update router firmware.
2) Make sure that you use 5Ghz wherever necessary and not the 2,4Ghz wavelength... It only takes one neighbor to micro popcorn to bring down a whole house' 2,4Ghz network
3) Update switch firmware
4) place them both off the UPS
5) remove switch temporarily off the setup, use only the router
6) Try a different router and switch

Hope this helps. I am 100% certain it is a network issue

Thanks for the advice. I've updated the router firmware very recently, so that doesn't fix the problem. The whole network is wired between the NAS and the Klimax; the only bit that occasionally uses wireless is the control point, but I can confirm that the problems have all occurred when using control points hard-wired to the switch.

I'm not sure there is any new switch firmware but I'll look. And I'll test the configuration options of taking things onto and off the UPS - however this will be tricky as the problem is so irregular. Nothing goes wrong for a few days, then I'll have several incidents over the next 2-3 days.

It will be very difficult for me to hardwire back to the router because of location challenges in the house. However I could set up with a different router sitting between the NAS and DS and just run it all as a separate network for a while.

All in all, this will take no little while to test so please bear with me while I try it out.

Appreciate you taking the time to help.

R

[simoncn]

(23-07-2014 22:47)rweten Wrote:  What I mean is that I would have started out with (say) an install running from package 29. I patch that to take it up to 31 and the problem starts. I uninstall entirely, take a fresh install package from your site (so right up to package 31 inclusive) and reinstall the problem using that.

The fresh install package does not include any updates. If you checked the uninstall option to preserve MinimServer configuration settings and data, your previously installed updates will be available in your new installation. I presume this is what you are doing.

Quote:Fixes the problem (of the server falling over nightly) every time. It only goes wrong again when the next update package arrives and I patch it over my existing install. That's what gives the problem.

Note, however, that I've had no chance to go through an update cycle since fixing the clock problem discussed earlier.

There should be another update fairly soon.