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DSD files and the Oppo
25-01-2014, 21:59
Post: #31
RE: DSD files and the Oppo
(25-01-2014 21:47)emiwan Wrote:  it's strange that the player can read the DSF and DFF and that buble Upnp that streams the content to it can not render it. I will try to contact them.

Good luck! I have found that manufacturers are rarely interested in fixing shortcomings or bugs in hardware or software they sell, unless those bugs inconvenience a large proportion of users. There may be an exception if an issue is easy and cheap to fix.

That is one reason Simon's attitude concerning MinimServer is so refreshing! ...but then again, I would be shocked if I learned that Simon develops MinimServer to make a living. Most vendors, in contrast, are out to make money, and there's none to be had in fixing the last 10% of problems.

Even free software often carries shortcomings forward from revision to revision, if a problem is difficult to fix and doesn't affect the developers. Especially with computer audio, it seems terribly important to test thoroughly before buying. The problem is, we don't know what problems to look for until we run into them! Having bought a PS Audio PWD-II (no gapless) and then a Simaudio MiND (promised Android app 4 months late and counting), I'm getting bleeding-edge fatigue.

Mike
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26-01-2014, 08:31
Post: #32
RE: DSD files and the Oppo
(25-01-2014 21:59)Mike48 Wrote:  Good luck! I have found that manufacturers are rarely interested in fixing shortcomings or bugs in hardware or software they sell, unless those bugs inconvenience a large proportion of users. There may be an exception if an issue is easy and cheap to fix.

I'm sure this is correct, whch is why I suggest to everyone who encounters this issue that they should contact OPPO about it. If OPPO receive enough customer complaints, perhaps they will eventually do something.

Quote:That is one reason Simon's attitude concerning MinimServer is so refreshing! ...but then again, I would be shocked if I learned that Simon develops MinimServer to make a living. Most vendors, in contrast, are out to make money, and there's none to be had in fixing the last 10% of problems.

Even free software often carries shortcomings forward from revision to revision, if a problem is difficult to fix and doesn't affect the developers.

Any successful/popular software offering is likely to generate more bug reports and feature requests than the developers are able to address in the time they have available. This is the situation with MinimServer.

Quote:Especially with computer audio, it seems terribly important to test thoroughly before buying. The problem is, we don't know what problems to look for until we run into them! Having bought a PS Audio PWD-II (no gapless) and then a Simaudio MiND (promised Android app 4 months late and counting), I'm getting bleeding-edge fatigue.

Buying anything based on a manufacturer promise of future improvements is risky. Spending time trawling the forums before buying can help provide clues to what issues other users are encountering, but there's always the chance that some important feature will be missing from the new purchase.
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26-01-2014, 16:05
Post: #33
RE: DSD files and the Oppo
I just discovered the MinimServer a few days ago. It is the best I've used so far and not nearly as complicated as others I've tried. I am using it with my Oppo 103, and it streams my multichannel DSD files (dff and dsf) perfectly. I have three general questions/observations:

1. The files show up in the Oppo browser on my TV as "APE" files even though they are dff and dsf. They play fine when I select them, and are streaming as DSD according to my receiver.
2. The album art doesn't show up for any of them.
3. They will only play when I use the Oppo hardware remote, and will not play when I try to select them in the Kinsky app on my iPad (although they do appear as dff and dsf files in that app). It looks like this is the issue that is being discussed above.
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26-01-2014, 17:12
Post: #34
RE: DSD files and the Oppo
(26-01-2014 16:05)Dapper7500 Wrote:  I just discovered the MinimServer a few days ago. It is the best I've used so far and not nearly as complicated as others I've tried. I am using it with my Oppo 103, and it streams my multichannel DSD files (dff and dsf) perfectly. I have three general questions/observations:

1. The files show up in the Oppo browser on my TV as "APE" files even though they are dff and dsf. They play fine when I select them, and are streaming as DSD according to my receiver.
2. The album art doesn't show up for any of them.
3. They will only play when I use the Oppo hardware remote, and will not play when I try to select them in the Kinsky app on my iPad (although they do appear as dff and dsf files in that app). It looks like this is the issue that is being discussed above.

This is very interesting. Have you set the transcode property to 'dopwav'?
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26-01-2014, 17:51
Post: #35
RE: DSD files and the Oppo
(26-01-2014 17:12)simoncn Wrote:  
(26-01-2014 16:05)Dapper7500 Wrote:  I just discovered the MinimServer a few days ago. It is the best I've used so far and not nearly as complicated as others I've tried. I am using it with my Oppo 103, and it streams my multichannel DSD files (dff and dsf) perfectly. I have three general questions/observations:

1. The files show up in the Oppo browser on my TV as "APE" files even though they are dff and dsf. They play fine when I select them, and are streaming as DSD according to my receiver.
2. The album art doesn't show up for any of them.
3. They will only play when I use the Oppo hardware remote, and will not play when I try to select them in the Kinsky app on my iPad (although they do appear as dff and dsf files in that app). It looks like this is the issue that is being discussed above.

This is very interesting. Have you set the transcode property to 'dopwav'?

Thanks for the quick response. I assume you are talking about a setting in MinimServer, but I don't see where that one is, and I don't want to do any transcoding anyway. In any event, all I did was install MinimServer on my Mac, tell it where my files are located, and turned on my Oppo.
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26-01-2014, 18:37 (This post was last modified: 26-01-2014 18:38 by simoncn.)
Post: #36
RE: DSD files and the Oppo
(26-01-2014 16:05)Dapper7500 Wrote:  I just discovered the MinimServer a few days ago. It is the best I've used so far and not nearly as complicated as others I've tried. I am using it with my Oppo 103, and it streams my multichannel DSD files (dff and dsf) perfectly. I have three general questions/observations:

1. The files show up in the Oppo browser on my TV as "APE" files even though they are dff and dsf. They play fine when I select them, and are streaming as DSD according to my receiver.
2. The album art doesn't show up for any of them.

Both these issues might be related to the MIME types that MinimServer sends for DFF and DSF files. I found a post here that suggests the OPPO would recognise audio/x-dff and audio/x-dsf as MIME types. Sending these MIME types might fix the "APE" display and it might make embedded album art show up for DSF files. (The DFF specification doesn't support tagging, so it isn't possible to add embedded album art to a DFF file.)

In a future update, I will include experimental support for audio/x-dff and audio/x-dsf MIME types to see what effect this has.

Quote:3. They will only play when I use the Oppo hardware remote, and will not play when I try to select them in the Kinsky app on my iPad (although they do appear as dff and dsf files in that app). It looks like this is the issue that is being discussed above.

It seems this is a limitation of the UPnP renderer support in the OPPO. By using the hardware remote, you are bypassing the UPnP renderer protocol.

(26-01-2014 17:51)Dapper7500 Wrote:  Thanks for the quick response. I assume you are talking about a setting in MinimServer, but I don't see where that one is, and I don't want to do any transcoding anyway. In any event, all I did was install MinimServer on my Mac, tell it where my files are located, and turned on my Oppo.

This setting is part of MinimStreamer and it is useful for renderers that support DSD streaming using the DoP (DSD over PCM) specification but don't support native DSD streaming. If you're able to stream DSD without using this setting, it means the OPPO supports native DSD streaming.
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26-01-2014, 18:50
Post: #37
Bug Manufacturers, Reviewers, and Customers
(26-01-2014 08:31)simoncn Wrote:  Buying anything based on a manufacturer promise of future improvements is risky. Spending time trawling the forums before buying can help provide clues to what issues other users are encountering, but there's always the chance that some important feature will be missing from the new purchase.

Risky at best.

The Forum suggestion is the right one --I'd been relying more on reviews. But even computer-audio reviewers are not yet competent on network audio components: they don't know what rocks to lift to look for the problems. It is disheartening how many reviews don't check for proper gapless operation or mention whether a renderer supports pause/resume and seeking, or whether it works with DLNA standard software as well as the manufacturer's own application.

And why do so many manufacturers try to write their own Android and iOS apps, rather than just making sure their devices work with the DLNA standard? This seems a sure waste of time and money, not to mention a sure way to irritate customers when the apps aren't as good as they should be, and the component not as standard-compliant as it should be.

Mike
Portland, Oregon, USA
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10-02-2014, 14:37
Post: #38
RE: DSD files and the Oppo
(26-01-2014 18:37)simoncn Wrote:  Both these issues might be related to the MIME types that MinimServer sends for DFF and DSF files. I found a post here that suggests the OPPO would recognise audio/x-dff and audio/x-dsf as MIME types. Sending these MIME types might fix the "APE" display and it might make embedded album art show up for DSF files. (The DFF specification doesn't support tagging, so it isn't possible to add embedded album art to a DFF file.)

In a future update, I will include experimental support for audio/x-dff and audio/x-dsf MIME types to see what effect this has.

This change is now available in MinimServer update 18. Please let me know whether it fixes the issues with the "APE" display and the lack of embedded album art.
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10-02-2014, 17:52
Post: #39
RE: DSD files and the Oppo
(10-02-2014 14:37)simoncn Wrote:  
(26-01-2014 18:37)simoncn Wrote:  Both these issues might be related to the MIME types that MinimServer sends for DFF and DSF files. I found a post here that suggests the OPPO would recognise audio/x-dff and audio/x-dsf as MIME types. Sending these MIME types might fix the "APE" display and it might make embedded album art show up for DSF files. (The DFF specification doesn't support tagging, so it isn't possible to add embedded album art to a DFF file.)

In a future update, I will include experimental support for audio/x-dff and audio/x-dsf MIME types to see what effect this has.

This change is now available in MinimServer update 18. Please let me know whether it fixes the issues with the "APE" display and the lack of embedded album art.

Thanks! They do show up as DSF files now. The album artwork still isn't working, but I now don't believe that has anything to do with MinimServer, since I discovered it's not showing up even when the files are played from a hard drive directly connected to the Oppo via USB.
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10-02-2014, 18:02
Post: #40
RE: DSD files and the Oppo
(10-02-2014 17:52)Dapper7500 Wrote:  Thanks! They do show up as DSF files now. The album artwork still isn't working, but I now don't believe that has anything to do with MinimServer, since I discovered it's not showing up even when the files are played from a hard drive directly connected to the Oppo via USB.

Thanks for letting me know. Is it still not possible to play these files from an external UPnP control point such as Kinsky or BubbleUPnP?
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