getting "n album" view in "AlbumArtist" order

[Foxman50]

OK this is whats going on

With only a few albums in the UPnP directory you dont get the # A ....... Z bar down the right hand side of the album selection screen within n-stream. With it like this it orders the albums as i want them, as Minimserver is configured, a good example is Adele and album 19 and 21.

With only a few albums and without the # A ....... Z bar it correctly orders them under A for Adele.

However once more albums are in the directory and the # A ....... Z shows n-stream then it orders them under # for the album name.

setting n-stream to compatibility mode does away with the # A ....... Z bar and hence orders albums as i want.

Again Simon many thanks for your help. I think ill send a post to Naim and see if they can maybe do a change in a release at some point

Regards Graeme

[Foxman50]

Think Ive sussed it but can you confirm before i go changing tags on my albums.

I have set

"aliasTags = AlbumArtist:Album, Album:AlbumArtist"

and

"tagOptions = Album.sortTags={AlbumArtist}"

this seems to sort them correctly, even better it puts the artist name above the album in n albums view. Just want to check you cant see any issue with these settings

[simoncn]

(30-12-2013 13:55)Foxman50 Wrote:  Think Ive sussed it but can you confirm before i go changing tags on my albums.

I have set

"aliasTags = AlbumArtist:Album, Album:AlbumArtist"

and

"tagOptions = Album.sortTags={AlbumArtist}"

this seems to sort them correctly, even better it puts the artist name above the album in n albums view. Just want to check you cant see any issue with these settings

I wouldn't recommend doing this. This setting for aliasTags will treat all your album names as album artist names and will treat all your album artist names as album names.

[Foxman50]

(30-12-2013 14:38)simoncn Wrote:  

(30-12-2013 13:55)Foxman50 Wrote:  Think Ive sussed it but can you confirm before i go changing tags on my albums.

I have set

"aliasTags = AlbumArtist:Album, Album:AlbumArtist"

and

"tagOptions = Album.sortTags={AlbumArtist}"

this seems to sort them correctly, even better it puts the artist name above the album in n albums view. Just want to check you cant see any issue with these settings

I wouldn't recommend doing this. This setting for aliasTags will treat all your album names as album artist names and will treat all your album artist names as album names.

But by doing so, it seems n-stream is requesting the Album tag and Minimserver is sending the AlbumArtist tag to it for its sort order, which is what i want it to do.

Also when n-stream requests the AlbumArtist tag minimserver is sending the Album tag.

So now in n album view it shows the album artwork with the correct AlbumArtist underneath and below this the Album, and is sorted by AlbumArtist.

As long as its not causing some sort of endless loop minimserver or conflicts somehow. Cant see anything bad in the logs.

[simoncn]

(30-12-2013 15:09)Foxman50 Wrote:  But by doing so, it seems n-stream is requesting the Album tag and Minimserver is sending the AlbumArtist tag to it for its sort order, which is what i want it to do.

Also when n-stream requests the AlbumArtist tag minimserver is sending the Album tag.

So now in n album view it shows the album artwork with the correct AlbumArtist underneath and below this the Album, and is sorted by AlbumArtist.

As long as its not causing some sort of endless loop minimserver or conflicts somehow. Cant see anything bad in the logs.

I understand that it helps with the sort order of the n albums view, but it will cause problems with other views such as Artist and AlbumArtist, and you will probably not get what you expect on the Now Playing screen.

[DavidHB]

The release announcement for n-Stream version 3.0 (I think that the current version is 3.2) stated:

"This new and improved control app offers ... sorting UPnP™ lists alphabetically."

I find the published UPnP specifications quite impenetrable (and greatly admire Simon and his like for their ability to work with them), but in my understanding it is the server and not the control point that should be doing any list sorting. Also, any sort would (I think) require that the browse tree is cached in some way at the control point, which is, again in my understanding, not what the UPnP specification requires.

Is my understanding correct in these respects?

David

[Foxman50]

(30-12-2013 15:15)simoncn Wrote:  I understand that it helps with the sort order of the n albums view, but it will cause problems with other views such as Artist and AlbumArtist, and you will probably not get what you expect on the Now Playing screen.

Yes i had noticed that on the now playing screen instead of getting

Album
Artist
Track

it shows

AlbumArtist
Artist
Track

where on most albums "AlbumArtist" and "Artist" are the same with the exception of compilation albums. However this is a small issue that i dont think will bother me as the album can be seen in the artwork.

Also as i never use any other view except n album view i think ill try it for a day or so see how it pans out, see if i notice any major issues

[simoncn]

(30-12-2013 15:17)DavidHB Wrote:  The release announcement for n-Stream version 3.0 (I think that the current version is 3.2) stated:

"This new and improved control app offers ... sorting UPnP™ lists alphabetically."

I find the published UPnP specifications quite impenetrable (and greatly admire Simon and his like for their ability to work with them), but in my understanding it is the server and not the control point that should be doing any list sorting. Also, any sort would (I think) require that the browse tree is cached in some way at the control point, which is, again in my understanding, not what the UPnP specification requires.

Is my understanding correct in these respects?

David

The control point is free to use the sort order returned by the server or to resort the list before presenting it to the user. There is no need for the control point to cache the browse tree, as it can apply its own sort order every time it receives a list from the server.

[Foxman50]

(30-12-2013 15:41)simoncn Wrote:  

(30-12-2013 15:17)DavidHB Wrote:  The release announcement for n-Stream version 3.0 (I think that the current version is 3.2) stated:

"This new and improved control app offers ... sorting UPnP™ lists alphabetically."

I find the published UPnP specifications quite impenetrable (and greatly admire Simon and his like for their ability to work with them), but in my understanding it is the server and not the control point that should be doing any list sorting. Also, any sort would (I think) require that the browse tree is cached in some way at the control point, which is, again in my understanding, not what the UPnP specification requires.

Is my understanding correct in these respects?

David

The control point is free to use the sort order returned by the server or to resort the list before presenting it to the user. There is no need for the control point to cache the browse tree, as it can apply its own sort order every time it receives a list from the server.

Sorry David i missed your post. N-stream does indeed cache what it receives from the server as i have to keep clearing the n-stream cache every time i make a change in minimserver.

And its precisely this

"This new and improved control app offers ... sorting UPnP™ lists alphabetically."

thats causing me the problem. Bit like Microsoft trying to be too clever for its own good, always thinking it knows what you want.

Regards Graeme

[DavidHB]

(30-12-2013 15:41)simoncn Wrote:  The control point is free to use the sort order returned by the server or to resort the list before presenting it to the user. There is no need for the control point to cache the browse tree, as it can apply its own sort order every time it receives a list from the server.

Thank you for the clarification, Simon. I'd guess, that, once control points have done a sort, most of them will cache the results, if only temporarily, and this seems to be what is happening in Graeme's case. But the real issue, as Graeme says, is that n-Stream is overriding the results from the server and making it difficult (or perhaps impossible) for the user to modify that behaviour.

Alternative control points for iOS (which I don't use) are PlugPlayer and Bubble UPnP. The latter is closely related to the excellent Bubble DS which I do use on Android; it is a paid-for app, but there is a functionally limited free version one could use for test purposes.

David