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serento · 25-08-2026, 21:00

(25-08-2026 20:53)simbun Wrote:
(25-08-2026 07:45)serento Wrote: Well, this is a touchy subject. Not for me, but for my competition. Because I know what I wrote and what I wrote never touches the audio stream, never touches the files. It's just a server - streamer communication, as we all know.
Yes, just how a standard UPnP control point works (it just hands the URL of the track to the renderer). It's trivial to verify that the source is untouched by checking AVTransport.GetMediaInfo.CurrentURI

(25-08-2026 07:45)serento Wrote: But there is an audible difference in Serento's favor. I will not theorize as to why the other apps sound less good, because there's no way of knowing and it's not really nice to talk about the competition.
If the source is untouched then there is no sound difference between control points, but there's no need to theorise given it's trivial to view the communication between the two devices. If I want to get a feel for how a control point works I'll normally play to a software renderer and enable logging, but it's simple enough to run a network capture to record calls and timings - which is only really relevant for polling/state change e.g. GetPositionInfo, GetVolume, GetTransportInfo.

It's ridiculous to claim that a control point can improve sound quality (when playing the same source), but if you don't, there will be a dozen apps that do so I guess it's just par for the course for "audiophile" products.

You are correct on both counts. I'm not saying my app sounds better because I did something with the stream. I'm saying it sounds better because I didn't. And I'll leave it at that. You will have to test it for yourself. Maybe someday I will have the time to test what other apps are doing with the method you described, but considering the amount of work I still have ahead of me with Serento, I'm not going to bother in the foreseeable future.

simoncn · 26-08-2026, 10:02

(25-08-2026 20:09)serento Wrote: Annual subscription is $50.
Lifetime subscription is $200.

You can see the prices in the In App Purchase section of the app store page.

Thanks for the pointer. I have found the prices on the App Store page now.

Donuk · 27-08-2026, 09:33

Well, I have had a couple of days to explore Serento.
When I opened the app the day following installation, it found my network and was well behaved.

My thoughts, strictly subjective....

It is an attractive app, fun to explore and easy on the eye. I like the way it uses external sources and its intelligence to add to one's knowledge about performers, conductors &c. And I agree with the author, it deals with classical music in a refreshing way (Although it has promoted Count John McCormack to the rank of 'conductor'.)

Sorento perhaps needs some additional work - an index down the right hand side of the screen in album view. Also the ability somewhere to click on an album cover and have it go full screen.
But on the whole it is all there, if not exactly where I expect. Viewing and adjusting playlists is not as easy as some other apps.

I find the volume control slider a bit traumatic. If you accidentally slide your finger along the volume line it will instantly go up to 100% and cause alarm with the speakers. Button adjustments with + and - would be preferable, and better for the neighbours.

The main problems are:

I can find no way to incorporate my Qobuz account. Also my Linn remote control will not work with Sorento: go, stop, start or go forward one track is not possible. Volume control is OK.

On the whole, great work in progress, and rather expensive - a dollar a week for a control app?

As for control apps affecting the sound - yes, it sounds nice, but my system does sound nice. I created a playlist and set things going. I then closed down my iPad with the music still running. The quality of sound did not deteriorate. As I understand it, the playlist on one's streamer is simply a list of addresses for the streamer to read from, say, a NAS. But I am willing to be educated....

Hope this helps

Donuk. York

serento · (This post was last modified: 27-08-2026 09:51 by serento.)

Thank you for trying Serento.

As far as feature requests I'm more than open to hear them out and implement them so you can be sure I'll take them into account for an upcoming version.

You can enable Alphabetical Index Bar in the settings. Once that is enabled, any list that is sorted by name, artist, title, etc, can be navigated using the index bar.

Rearranging tracks in a playlist is a drag and drop gesture. It's not the most elegant and I will improve it. iOS 27 already improves this by default so dragging to rearrange and swipe to delete is going to be present on all types of lists. In iOS 26 only some components support these two gestures.

I can improve the volume control with - + buttons and also with volume limit per streamer. Next version will have this.

There is no support for the streaming services yet. It's on the roadmap: https://serento.app/Home/Roadmap.

Tidal and Qobuz no longer work with individual developers and work with integrators. The integrator fees are tens of thousands of dollars/euros. Let's just say that when Serento is more popular, I'll be able to pay those fees.

Your streamer most likely supports OpenHome. It can hold it's own "playlist" of track urls. Closing Serento does not kill the music because the streamer and the server are doing the all the work. When you open the Audio Output screen, right next to the name of the streamer you will find one of two labels: OH or DLNA. If you see OH it means your streamer supports OpenHome.

Thanks for the feedback. If you have anything else that you don't like, feel free to let me know. I will try to fix it.

Donuk · 27-08-2026, 15:26

Hi Serento,
I have checked as you suggest above, and find that your app says that my Linn streamer is DNLA. Not Openhome.
I am certain that Linn streamers do accommodate Openhome.
It seems that the app is not detecting this.
Donuk.

Peter StreamMagic · 27-08-2026, 20:24

(27-08-2026 15:26)Donuk Wrote: Hi Serento,
I have checked as you suggest above, and find that your app says that my Linn streamer is DNLA. Not Openhome.
I am certain that Linn streamers do accommodate Openhome.
It seems that the app is not detecting this.
Donuk.

Same here, not openhome and not able to see the queue that is listed in Kazoo, Linn and Lumin.
I must be doing something wrong, I can't see my custom made artwork and intelligent browsing seems not to be working in my case.

serento · 27-08-2026, 21:30

(27-08-2026 20:24)Peter StreamMagic Wrote:
(27-08-2026 15:26)Donuk Wrote: Hi Serento,
I have checked as you suggest above, and find that your app says that my Linn streamer is DNLA. Not Openhome.
I am certain that Linn streamers do accommodate Openhome.
It seems that the app is not detecting this.
Donuk.

Same here, not openhome and not able to see the queue that is listed in Kazoo, Linn and Lumin.
I must be doing something wrong, I can't see my custom made artwork and intelligent browsing seems not to be working in my case.

I checked. Your Lumin or Linn devices are seen as OH, its just a mislabeling that I already fixed for the next version.

Serento is designed to work only with Serento for many technical and user experience reasons. If you are planning on using multiple apps then Serento isn't really for you.

Stake · 28-08-2026, 08:01

I've given Serento a quick try. The things that I find find most disturbing at first glance.

It ignores my genre tags and only lets me browse by its own genre catagories.
When selecting an artist (album artist) I instantly want to see a list of his albums. In Serento I have to hit another button to get this list.
When playing a compilation album where every title has its own cover art embedded, the playback screen shows only one of these covers for the whole queue of this album.
I find it very disturbing that the app will by default give you additional info on the artist. I suppose this is loaded on syncronisation. Neither do I want to see this nor do I want a controlpoint to contact the internet for my UPnP library.

All in all it seems too Roon-like for me. I have my own library organisation and want to see the output of my server, not someone else's logic.

serento · 28-08-2026, 08:37

Thanks for taking the time to try it and to write this up in detail.

Let me take your points in order, because they fall into two quite different categories.

Genre tags. Worth separating two things here, because I think you've hit one of them and not the other.

Your genre tag is read and used. On an album, what you see is what your file says, exactly as you tagged it. Nothing is substituted there.

What you've run into is Browse - Genres specifically. That view maps tags into a taxonomy so that libraries with wildly inconsistent tagging still produce something navigable. If you've tagged with precision, seeing your work flattened into a handful of broad buckets is, maybe, a poor result, and that's a fair hit. Whether the answer is a more granular taxonomy or a way to browse raw tags as they appear in your files, I haven't settled yet, but the current state isn't good enough for libraries like yours.

Artist to album list. Fair point, and easy enough to look at. The extra tap exists because the artist view carries more than just albums, but I take the point that for a lot of people the album list is the only thing they came for. I'll think of a solution.

Per track cover art on compilations. That's a genuine limitation rather than a design choice. The now playing screen currently follows the album, not the track. For a compilation where each track carries its own artwork, that's clearly wrong. I'll look into it.

Artist information and network access. This one I'll be straight with you about.

The metadata enrichment is deliberate and it's central to what Serento is. It stays.

The reason is simply what most libraries look like. Yours is carefully organised, and libraries like yours are the exception. The overwhelming majority of people have libraries with patchy genres, missing artwork, inconsistent artist names and no credits at all. For them, browsing raw server output is a poor experience, and the enrichment is what makes the app usable rather than decorative.

What I can tell you is what it does not do. It never modifies your files. Nothing is written back to your library, ever. Everything fetched is cached locally and layered on top of what your files already say, so your own tagging remains the source of truth in the app.

But you're right that the app talks to the internet during sync, and that isn't going to change. If that alone rules it out for you, I understand completely, and I'd rather you knew now than found out three weeks in.

On the wider point. I don't think you're wrong about the philosophy. There's a real difference between a control point that shows you exactly what your server returns and one that builds a layer on top. Serento is the second kind, by intent. Some people want the first, and there are good apps that do that well.

So it may simply not be the right tool for how you work, and that's a perfectly reasonable conclusion to reach. No hard feelings at all.

That said, the genre browsing and the compilation artwork are worth fixing regardless of whether you stay, so thank you for finding them.

Stake · 28-08-2026, 09:13

Thank you, @serento for this precise, no bullshxt answer!

It is as you say, the app is obviously not the right tool for me. I don't want the extra layer on top.
But I appreciate your approach by which you are addressing the problems (sloppiness) of many people.

Unfortunately I haven't found one single control point for iOS that really does what it is supposed to do with the exception of the WiiM Home App which I am happy to have for my WiiMs.
But if I ever wanted to switch to another streamer whose app isn't as good, I'd have to use mConnect.
mConnect works, in a way. But it has two major setbacks. One is that it will keep the phone's screen alive if you don't actively close it or switch to another app. The second is that when you really close the app the stream stops as it is routed through the phone and not maintained by the renderer.

Minim is such a powerfull and well customisable server that it is really a shame not to see its output in the control point.
If ever you decide to create another app with a different target group of users in mind please let us know. I can see so many good things in your current app. So I'm confident that a 'better mConnect' designed by you would be the end to all troubles for a lot of people.