Any Chance of a MinimServer Control Point App?

[tarnkappe]

Well, I like BubbleUPnP because of its huge functionality. And I very often do not like Apple things because they think to know what I (the user) want. And often they are wrong. This is why I prefer linux and KDE over apple or microsoft who want to keep software too simple.

Just my 2ct...

[simbun]

(19-03-2023 20:24)lyapounov Wrote:  You confirm my statement: the idea to create a word processor to navigate in your music is a typical engineer idea. Why do we need this ?

But don't you see the contradiction? You say that Lumin has a focus, an elegance, and a simplicity to its design...as long as, of course, you've installed BubbleUPnP Server on a NAS in a docker container and have your UPnP renderers configured correctly.

If you're an individual that only has OpenHome speakers and uses only UPnP and Quboz sources then yes, it's simple and elegant, but that's largely because it is simple, and represents only a tiny fraction of UPnP users.

Would you prefer separate apps for:
OpenHome speakers
UPnP speakers that are gapless
UPnP speakers that aren't gapless
accessing Quboz
accessing Tidal
Video
e.t.c.

UPnP can be a catastrophe, and BubbleUPnP brings it all together adding compatibility along the way. I generally don't like apps that try and "do it all" but BubbleUPnP achieves that, and because of its configurability still feels like a very tailored experience, and most importantly, just works.

(19-03-2023 20:24)lyapounov Wrote:  I don't get your point of BubbleUpnp server and Lumin ?

My point was just that most people are using the Lumin app not because they have Lumin gear, but because BubbleUPnP server enables them to use it on non-OpenHome products.


The ability to pick your favorite server, control point and renderer is the reason I love UPnP, and long may it remain.

[DavidL]

I'd note that best control point for your implementation of MinimServer is likely to be dependent on the renderer hardware you are using. I noticed a definite improvement moving from UPnP control point to dCS Mosaic control point: thus with UPnP working with my dCS Network Bridge I lost gapless playback, whereas all was fine with the dCS app.
Furthermore custom control points typically have extra features that allow some control/monitoring of the renderer hardware.

[simbun]

(20-03-2023 12:22)DavidL Wrote:  I'd note that best control point for your implementation of MinimServer is likely to be dependent on the renderer hardware you are using. I noticed a definite improvement moving from UPnP control point to dCS Mosaic control point: thus with UPnP working with my dCS Network Bridge I lost gapless playback, whereas all was fine with the dCS app.
Furthermore custom control points typically have extra features that allow some control/monitoring of the renderer hardware.

Did you enable 'Gapless control' in the BubbleUPnP settings? You can find it by clicking on the vertical ellipsis to the right of your renderer, choose 'Settings' and then scroll down to 'UPnP Tweaks'.
I don't believe it's possible to verify if a renderer truly supports gapless so it's off by default. I've just had to do this for a WiiM renderer.

[lyapounov]

(19-03-2023 22:42)simbun Wrote:  But don't you see the contradiction? You say that Lumin has a focus, an elegance, and a simplicity to its design...as long as, of course, you've installed BubbleUPnP Server on a NAS in a docker container and have your UPnP renderers configured correctly.

You have a point here. But if the alternative is a complex app that works without OpenHome, I prefer the simplicity of the design, because once Openhome is set-up I don't need to manage this any longer.

Quote:Would you prefer separate apps for:
OpenHome speakers
UPnP speakers that are gapless
UPnP speakers that aren't gapless
accessing Quboz
accessing Tidal
Video
e.t.c.

Whoever has this type of complex system should not be afraid to install Openhome and therefore have everything you mention with the Lumin app !

Around me I see two categories: the deep music lovers who have one system in their home in a specific room and Lumin is perfect, and the casual music lovers who have an integrated system with loudpeakers everywhere like Sonos and use the corresponding specific app.

Quote:The ability to pick your favorite server, control point and renderer is the reason I love UPnP, and long may it remain.

I guess you meant "BubbleUPnP" instead of "UPnP" ;-)

[simbun]

(22-03-2023 01:35)lyapounov Wrote:  

(19-03-2023 22:42)simbun Wrote:  But don't you see the contradiction? You say that Lumin has a focus, an elegance, and a simplicity to its design...as long as, of course, you've installed BubbleUPnP Server on a NAS in a docker container and have your UPnP renderers configured correctly.

You have a point here. But if the alternative is a complex app that works without OpenHome, I prefer the simplicity of the design, because once Openhome is set-up I don't need to manage this any longer.

I would genuinely like to understand why you think it's complex because I've encountered a few comments like that recently (although to be fair it seems to be from the crowd that's used to having a dedicated app like those from Plex/Emby e.t.c) and it seems to be the display of the 'Local and Cloud' tab; once you've made the changes I mentioned earlier (which is easier than installing BubbbleUPnP Server and is likewise a one-off), in my opinion it's more straightforward that Lumin because you just have 4 tabs to deal with.

(22-03-2023 01:35)lyapounov Wrote:  Around me I see two categories: the deep music lovers who have one system in their home in a specific room and Lumin is perfect, and the casual music lovers who have an integrated system with loudpeakers everywhere like Sonos and use the corresponding specific app.

I think you're right about the one system vs many, but "deep music lovers" vs "casual music lovers" is way off, I think it's more of a generational thing.


I've tried to focus on user experience vs pure aesthetics because that's very personal (and I actually prefer Hi-Fi Cast to both in many respects here), but here are my weaknesses on both systems, would love to hear yours.

Lumin

• Needs BubbleUPnP Server installed
• Default install of Lumin results in a blank page with only a tiny settings icon. Steve Jobs would not be happy ;-)
• Needless indexing (and associated UI elements)
• Browse settings (UPnP browsing icon size/orientation) reset on app close
• Would prefer to have independent index, listing and album (size/orientation) icon settings
• There doesn't appear to be a quick way to go back to the root of the browsing tree, so you have to backtrack all the way
• If you do use pinch to zoom, going back (using gesture or buttons) takes you to the previously sized icons rather than the previous browsing step
• Can't play from disc subtitles (or even show the tracks below it), yet the UI lets you add to the queue, but literally nothing happens, no queue change or message
• Need to go into the menu to switch libraries/renderers
• Can't continue a playlist on another renderer
• Keeps losing renderers
  

BubbleUPnP

• The Library pane in the default install is over complicated for a pure UPnP installation
• Would prefer to have independent index, listing and album (size/orientation) icon settings
  

I struggled to come up with many for BubbleUPnP but that might be unconcious bias, or because I've learnt to work around them.

Your point about having only a single system would negate some of my dislikes about Lumin, so maybe that's the sweet spot.

[stefano_mbp]

You’re missing some “long press” functionalities, should be better to read carefully the app user manual

[tarnkappe]

Quote:There doesn't appear to be a quick way to go back to the root of the browsing tree, so you have to backtrack all the way

There is the drop down box with the navigation path in it. Using this you get back to top very quickly.

[simbun]

(22-03-2023 17:07)stefano_mbp Wrote:  You’re missing some “long press” functionalities, should be better to read carefully the app user manual

(19-03-2023 20:24)lyapounov Wrote:  The greatest Apple innovation is the absence of a user manual; no one needs this.

I've just had a quick look and I don't think I'm missing any long press functionalities, but equally I had no idea it supported Qobuz and TIDAL either. There's no mention of it in the settings, and I've just - by accident - realised that I need to select a renderer for the Qobuz icon to appear, so maybe I need to select a renderer with TIDAL connect for TIDAL to appear.

Maybe it's an iOS vs Android thing, but in Android you're usually given an indication that there's functionality available e.g. vertical ellipsis, rather than having to long press everything on screen.

[simbun]

(22-03-2023 17:11)tarnkappe Wrote:  

Quote:There doesn't appear to be a quick way to go back to the root of the browsing tree, so you have to backtrack all the way

There is the drop down box with the navigation path in it. Using this you get back to top very quickly.

There's no excuse for missing that, it's basically in the same place as BubbleUPnP too! The only thing I can think of is because there's an arrow next to it I assumed that was the functionality and the text was just a label (in BubbleUPnP there's a downward pointing arrow next to it that all activates the functionality). The Lumin popup is presented more cleanly too.