Cambridge CXN V2 functionality?

[MarmiteSandwich]

(09-06-2021 10:35)MarmiteSandwich Wrote:  As suggested by @JohnT, I approached my local Richer Sounds, who were very amenable to a trial loan of their shop model CXNv2, on which I have carried out some preliminary tests. First impressions:-

The Good News.
- The analogue-out sound quality was very impressive and a big improvement on my existing setup, which is really a reflection of my existing DAC, not a digital issue.
- I did manage to play Internet radio, including BBC, from MinimStreamer, using the attached playlist. I can't vouch for all the stations but my regulars worked - R3, R4, KUVO, Verulam. I only managed this by either using the StreamMagic app, or by using the Windows control point UPPlay. Attempts to use BubbleUPnP, or the Bubble OpenHome server for radio were not successful.
- ALAC files (with a .m4a extension) play truly gaplessly.

The Bad News.
- Serious: m4a files containing lossy aac data play, but every track suffers from a small stutter within the first 5 seconds of starting. In addition, the gapless functionality is not good - there is an audible discontinuity at the transition. You can hear the join. Combined with the stutter, it means that albums with continuous playing music across track boundaries sound very bad. This is a deal breaker for me, and I have referred it to Cambridge Audio for their comments.
- Annoying: UPnP seems to be implemented in a minimalist way, and I'm not sure it is following all the rules. CA really want you to use their app, and I would say probably most CXN users do this. BubbleUPnP and UPPlay work in ways inconsistent with other renderers (well, upmpdcli on a Pi, anyway). I am having trouble getting the BubbleUPnP server to emulate OpenHome well, so that I can use multiple control points on different platforms. There are lots of detailed niggles I could report, but they may be fixable with some help from the developers of these 3rd party software products.

Update after some experimenting:-
I referred the problem of bad aac file experience to Cambridge Audio via their web site support page and got a very quick response. This included a suggestion to install the latest beta version of the firmware, which exists as an option in the device management. I did this and there were several improvements. The stutter at the beginning of files disappeared, but the bad gapless experience persisted. I reproduced this via the USB drive option which proved it was not an issue with my LAN. CA support then tested some files I uploaded and seemed to accept that there was an issue. At any rate it has been referred to their "engineering team", and the support ticket left open.

In addition to the aac file improvement, the beta firmware ("Early Updates" they call this option), seemed to interact with UPnP control points in a more stable way, which was encouraging.

On advice from Simon, I have updated the radio stream playlist file, which resolved the problem with radio via BubbleUPnP Server.

Outstanding issues:-
Unless I re-rip all albums which have gapless music into ALAC or FLAC, I will have annoying blips when tracks change on some albums, until the engineering team sort it out.

There is an irritating problem with BubbleUPnP Server, whereby the OpenHome version of the CXN does not always appear on all control points, in particular 2 different installations of Android BubbleUPnP. It comes and goes, although other OpenHome versions of renderers via the server appear constantly. This is probably not helped by the Chromecast Built-In function which advertises itself on the network with the same IP address and friendly name as the CXN UPnP renderer. If you change it in Google Home to something else, the CXN changes its name to the same as the Chromecast. I have enquired about a feature to name it something else (or just turn it off when not required), and I will investigate ways of making the OpenHome renderer appear more readily and consistently on BubbleUPnP control points.

The Windows UPPlay control point has a tendency to lose track of where the renderer is up to in the queue and current track. I have noticed this on other occasions with this control point and other Server/OH renderers and may be related to the BubbleUPnP Server issue above. If not, I can refer it to the developer.

Overall still not decided, since one of the reasons for opting for CA was to minimise technical faffing about and bodging to get things to work how I want/how they should. The Pi with upmpdcli/mpd is currently working fine! The devices suggested by Peter StreamMagic are still an option.

Marmite.

[MarmiteSandwich]

(11-06-2021 10:03)MarmiteSandwich Wrote:  Outstanding issues:-
Unless I re-rip all albums which have gapless music into ALAC or FLAC, I will have annoying blips when tracks change on some albums, until the engineering team sort it out.

There is an irritating problem with BubbleUPnP Server, whereby the OpenHome version of the CXN does not always appear on all control points, in particular 2 different installations of Android BubbleUPnP. It comes and goes, although other OpenHome versions of renderers via the server appear constantly. This is probably not helped by the Chromecast Built-In function which advertises itself on the network with the same IP address and friendly name as the CXN UPnP renderer. If you change it in Google Home to something else, the CXN changes its name to the same as the Chromecast. I have enquired about a feature to name it something else (or just turn it off when not required), and I will investigate ways of making the OpenHome renderer appear more readily and consistently on BubbleUPnP control points.

The Windows UPPlay control point has a tendency to lose track of where the renderer is up to in the queue and current track. I have noticed this on other occasions with this control point and other Server/OH renderers and may be related to the BubbleUPnP Server issue above. If not, I can refer it to the developer.

Overall still not decided, since one of the reasons for opting for CA was to minimise technical faffing about and bodging to get things to work how I want/how they should. The Pi with upmpdcli/mpd is currently working fine! The devices suggested by Peter StreamMagic are still an option.

Marmite.

Final assessment:
I have given up with this device as a UPnP renderer, since I need OpenHome, which it does not support, and it does not interact well with Control Points (BubbleUPnP, UPPlay) via BubbleUPnP Server emulating OpenHome. I updated BubbleUPnP Server and UPPlay to the latest versions which did not improve things. The inbuilt DAC is very good, and the product has many other useful features like airplay, Chromecast built in, and streaming service connectivity.
Marmite

[simoncn]

Thanks very much for posting this very useful information (review) about the good and bad points of the CXN V2. It will be very useful for other forum members considering this device.

I am sorry to hear you were not able to overcome the OpenHome issues. OpenHome is a requirement for me as well and it is disappointing that this hasn't gained wider acceptance as an industry standard.

[Peter StreamMagic]

Quote:Seems like if you want good UPnP/OpenHome functionality you need to either faff about with Pi/Linux or pay a fortune for Linn gear.

Just a thought : Teac uses the lookalike Lumin app and appears to be openhome.
Same price category as the CXN , might also be worth a try
Streamer/ DAC in one box solution.

[MarmiteSandwich]

Update: After help from bubblesoft in analysing the UPnP performance of the Cambridge Audio CXNv2, and perseverance with the BubbleUPnP Server, I am going ahead with installation of this device. There are a few remaining glitches in the interaction with BubbleUPnP for Android and BubbleUPnP Server, but I hope to find ways round these over time.
Marmite

[simoncn]

I am pleased to hear about this successful outcome of your hard work in making all these products from different manfacturers and developers work together to the extent that you now have a usable system.

UPnP is far from perfect but its great value is to provide an open industry standard for interworking that makes this kind of thing possible.

[steamfan]

(03-06-2021 23:06)Peter StreamMagic Wrote:  CA streamers also are not able to play radio streams served by MinimServer

I can't confirm that. I'm using a CXN V1 and play various radio streams via MinimServer / MinimStreamer.

[MarmiteSandwich]

(Today 13:42)steamfan Wrote:  

(03-06-2021 23:06)Peter StreamMagic Wrote:  CA streamers also are not able to play radio streams served by MinimServer

I can't confirm that. I'm using a CXN V1 and play various radio streams via MinimServer / MinimStreamer.

I have a CXN V2 and I can confirm that it plays radio streams served by MinimStreamer fine. Both BBC and others. It also has 8 presets on the remote which allow you to play any saved stations (including BBC at 320k aac) instantly. Reverting to upnp can be a bit clunky, but it works.
Marmite