Often Linn Kazoo cannot see MinimServer

[vilmos]

My setup:

MinimServer on Mac mini with macOS HighSierra (for reasons)

iMac with macOS Catalina running MinimWatch and sometimes also Kazoo.

Kazoo running on iPhone with iOS 14.4

My Router is Fritz!Box 7590, both Macs (and Linn DSM) connected via Ethernet, iPhone via WiFi

Symptoms:

After Mac mini is woken up from sleep, usually MinimServer is listed as Unavailable in Kazoo. Performing a Rescan on MinimServer usually makes MinimServer reappear in Kazoo. But not always, sometimes I have to Exit and Restart MinimServer.

Sometimes MinimServer also becomes Unavailable in Kazoo after I put the Linn DSM into sleep mode.

I often have the situation that MinimServer is Unavailable in Kazoo on the iPhone but available on the iMac or vice versa.

And usually MimimWatch takes 5 minutes or more before it no longer shows a dark grey background in the menu bar and becomes usable again.

[simoncn]

This is caused by a UPnP multicast discovery problem with your network. You might be able to solve it by changing a router setting. For more information, see this page.

[vilmos]

(09-03-2021 22:36)simoncn Wrote:  You might be able to solve it by changing a router setting. For more information, see this page.

Thanks for answering so quickly.

However, the Fritz!Boxes (very common, if not the most common router in Germany) do not have any setting to disable IGMP snooping. (I also asked AVM – the manufacturer of Fritz!Box – about IGMP snooping, but did not get an answer so far).

Interesting is that a MinimServer rescan (while kazoo is active) immediately makes the MinimServer appear in kazoo. So obviously the rescan causes some kind of announcement to be sent out on the net which is recognized by kazoo (I'm not an expert on the inner workings of UPnP and multicast). Wouldn't it be possible to optionally send out this "announcement" periodically (every n minutes, settable by the user) as a kind of workaround for cases like mine?

[simoncn]

This is not possible because the ohNet UPnP stack (used by MinimServer) does not support "flooding" the network with messages that should not be needed if the router is implementing multicast messaging correctly.

It is possible that this isn't a router IGMP issue but might be caused by the way the Mac mini implements sleep. When the Mac mini wakes from sleep and the MinimWatch icon is grey, try doing a Refresh from the MinimWatch menu. Does this find MinimServer within a few seconds?

[stefano_mbp]

On my experience Kazoo is sometimes a little bit picky and unpredictable.
Could you try the new Linn app to verify if it works better?

[vilmos]

(10-03-2021 10:49)stefano_mbp Wrote:  Could you try the new Linn app to verify if it works better?

I installed that too but don't use it, because I NEVER could see MinimServer there (Kazoo Server, however, shows up)

[vilmos]

(10-03-2021 10:46)simoncn Wrote:  When the Mac mini wakes from sleep and the MinimWatch icon is grey, try doing a Refresh from the MinimWatch menu. Does this find MinimServer within a few seconds?

The disappearance from Kazoo not only happens after the Mac mini waking from sleep. A refresh from the MinimWatch menu does not find MinimServer within a few seconds. Rather, when I do a Refresh on a connected MinimWatch (white background), after some seconds the background turns gray and MinimWatch is no longer connected. It will reconnect only after several minutes.

[simoncn]

It sounds like the refresh message from MinimWatch to MinimServer (or the reply from MinimServer to MinimWatch) is being blocked by your network.

[vilmos]

I got an answer from AVM. They say that the Fritz!Box does NOT do IGMP Snooping.

I also noted that after doing a Refresh from the MinimWatch menu, not only the icon gets grey but an open MinimWatch log window is closed. When Watch comes back I see the following messages in the log window (level: trace):

10:38:37.647 Thread-7: ListDeviceType:jminim.org:Monitor21: device added for udn 0b646803-bfb8-49dd-83de-e20551dfbf1b: org.openhome.net.controlpoint.CpDevice@171eb2c8
10:38:37.647 Thread-7: Upnp.Location: http://192.168.177.2:9791/0b646803-bfb8-...device.xml
10:38:37.647 Thread-7: Upnp.DeviceXml: <?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?><root xmlns="urn:schemas-upnp-org:device-1-0"><specVersion><major>1</major><minor>0</minor></specVersion><device><deviceType>urn:jminim-org:device:Monitor2:1</deviceType><friendlyName>Monitor Service 2</friendlyName><manufacturer>jminim.org</manufacturer><modelName>MonitorService2</modelName><UDN>uuid:0b646803-bfb8-49dd-83de-e20551dfbf1b</UDN><serviceList><service><serviceType>urn:jminim-org:service:Monitor2:2</serviceType><serviceId>urn:jminim-org:serviceId:Monitor2</serviceId><SCPDURL>/0b646803-bfb8-49dd-83de-e20551dfbf1b/Upnp/jminim.org-Monitor2-2/service.xml</SCPDURL><controlURL>/0b646803-bfb8-49dd-83de-e20551dfbf1b/jminim.org-Monitor2-2/control</controlURL><eventSubURL>/0b646803-bfb8-49dd-83de-e20551dfbf1b/jminim.org-Monitor2-2/event</eventSubURL></service><service><serviceType>urn:jminim-org:service:Log2:1</serviceType><serviceId>urn:jminim-org:serviceId:Log2</serviceId><SCPDURL>/0b646803-bfb8-49dd-83de-e20551dfbf1b/Upnp/jminim.org-Log2-1/service.xml</SCPDURL><controlURL>/0b646803-bfb8-49dd-83de-e20551dfbf1b/jminim.org-Log2-1/control</controlURL><eventSubURL>/0b646803-bfb8-49dd-83de-e20551dfbf1b/jminim.org-Log2-1/event</eventSubURL></service></serviceList></device></root>
10:38:37.647 Thread-7: Upnp.FriendlyName: Monitor Service 2
10:38:37.656 Thread-7: Upnp.PresentationUrl: null
10:38:37.657 Thread-7: ObserverService: device added for udn 0b646803-bfb8-49dd-83de-e20551dfbf1b: org.openhome.net.controlpoint.CpDevice@171eb2c8
10:38:37.657 Thread-7: ObserverService: calling addRef for device org.openhome.net.controlpoint.CpDevice@171eb2c8
10:38:37.657 Thread-7: deviceAdded: adding device org.openhome.net.controlpoint.CpDevice@171eb2c8
10:38:37.657 Thread-4: DeviceAddedAction starting
10:38:37.657 Thread-4: addDeviceMonitor: device org.openhome.net.controlpoint.CpDevice@171eb2c8 state PENDING_ADD
10:38:37.657 Thread-4: initializing DeviceMonitor
10:38:37.657 Thread-4: device type is Monitor Service 2
10:38:37.657 Thread-4: checking remote runtime version
10:38:37.663 Thread-4: remote runtime version is 2.0.136
10:38:37.664 Thread-4: TrayCallback: discovered remote device
10:38:37.664 Thread-4: TrayCallback: adding ServerControl
10:38:37.664 AWT-EventQueue-0: TrayView: creating tray icon
10:38:37.664 AWT-EventQueue-0: TrayView: created tray icon
10:38:37.664 Thread-4: ServerControl: listenerAdded called with RuntimeProxy
10:38:37.670 Thread-4: ServerControl: runtime version is 2.0.136
10:38:37.675 Thread-7: ListServiceType:jminim.org:Monitor21: device added for udn 0b646803-bfb8-49dd-83de-e20551dfbf1b: org.openhome.net.controlpoint.CpDevice@5eba70be
10:38:37.675 Thread-7: Upnp.Location: http://192.168.177.2:9791/0b646803-bfb8-...device.xml
10:38:37.675 Thread-7: Upnp.DeviceXml: <?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?><root xmlns="urn:schemas-upnp-org:device-1-0"><specVersion><major>1</major><minor>0</minor></specVersion><device><deviceType>urn:jminim-org:device:Monitor2:1</deviceType><friendlyName>Monitor Service 2</friendlyName><manufacturer>jminim.org</manufacturer><modelName>MonitorService2</modelName><UDN>uuid:0b646803-bfb8-49dd-83de-e20551dfbf1b</UDN><serviceList><service><serviceType>urn:jminim-org:service:Monitor2:2</serviceType><serviceId>urn:jminim-org:serviceId:Monitor2</serviceId><SCPDURL>/0b646803-bfb8-49dd-83de-e20551dfbf1b/Upnp/jminim.org-Monitor2-2/service.xml</SCPDURL><controlURL>/0b646803-bfb8-49dd-83de-e20551dfbf1b/jminim.org-Monitor2-2/control</controlURL><eventSubURL>/0b646803-bfb8-49dd-83de-e20551dfbf1b/jminim.org-Monitor2-2/event</eventSubURL></service><service><serviceType>urn:jminim-org:service:Log2:1</serviceType><serviceId>urn:jminim-org:serviceId:Log2</serviceId><SCPDURL>/0b646803-bfb8-49dd-83de-e20551dfbf1b/Upnp/jminim.org-Log2-1/service.xml</SCPDURL><controlURL>/0b646803-bfb8-49dd-83de-e20551dfbf1b/jminim.org-Log2-1/control</controlURL><eventSubURL>/0b646803-bfb8-49dd-83de-e20551dfbf1b/jminim.org-Log2-1/event</eventSubURL></service></serviceList></device></root>
10:38:37.675 Thread-7: Upnp.FriendlyName: Monitor Service 2
10:38:37.675 Thread-7: Upnp.PresentationUrl: null
10:38:37.675 Thread-7: ObserverService: device added for udn 0b646803-bfb8-49dd-83de-e20551dfbf1b: org.openhome.net.controlpoint.CpDevice@5eba70be
10:38:37.679 Thread-4: ServerControl: resource host is minimworld.com
10:38:37.679 Thread-4: starting DeviceMonitor org.jminim.lib.ObserverService$DeviceMonitor@51aa3853
10:38:37.679 Thread-4: DeviceMonitor.start: subscribing monitorProxy org.jminim.ohnet.CpProxyJminimOrgMonitor22@760ad50
10:38:37.679 Thread-4: DeviceAddedAction ended
10:38:37.679 Thread-7: ObserverService: ignoring added device with udn 0b646803-bfb8-49dd-83de-e20551dfbf1b and state ADDED
10:38:37.685 Thread-7: ListServiceType:jminim.org:Log21: device added for udn 0b646803-bfb8-49dd-83de-e20551dfbf1b: org.openhome.net.controlpoint.CpDevice@647dbd0c
10:38:37.685 Thread-7: Upnp.Location: http://192.168.177.2:9791/0b646803-bfb8-...device.xml
10:38:37.685 Thread-7: Upnp.DeviceXml: <?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?><root xmlns="urn:schemas-upnp-org:device-1-0"><specVersion><major>1</major><minor>0</minor></specVersion><device><deviceType>urn:jminim-org:device:Monitor2:1</deviceType><friendlyName>Monitor Service 2</friendlyName><manufacturer>jminim.org</manufacturer><modelName>MonitorService2</modelName><UDN>uuid:0b646803-bfb8-49dd-83de-e20551dfbf1b</UDN><serviceList><service><serviceType>urn:jminim-org:service:Monitor2:2</serviceType><serviceId>urn:jminim-org:serviceId:Monitor2</serviceId><SCPDURL>/0b646803-bfb8-49dd-83de-e20551dfbf1b/Upnp/jminim.org-Monitor2-2/service.xml</SCPDURL><controlURL>/0b646803-bfb8-49dd-83de-e20551dfbf1b/jminim.org-Monitor2-2/control</controlURL><eventSubURL>/0b646803-bfb8-49dd-83de-e20551dfbf1b/jminim.org-Monitor2-2/event</eventSubURL></service><service><serviceType>urn:jminim-org:service:Log2:1</serviceType><serviceId>urn:jminim-org:serviceId:Log2</serviceId><SCPDURL>/0b646803-bfb8-49dd-83de-e20551dfbf1b/Upnp/jminim.org-Log2-1/service.xml</SCPDURL><controlURL>/0b646803-bfb8-49dd-83de-e20551dfbf1b/jminim.org-Log2-1/control</controlURL><eventSubURL>/0b646803-bfb8-49dd-83de-e20551dfbf1b/jminim.org-Log2-1/event</eventSubURL></service></serviceList></device></root>
10:38:37.685 Thread-7: Upnp.FriendlyName: Monitor Service 2
10:38:37.685 Thread-7: Upnp.PresentationUrl: null
10:38:37.685 Thread-7: ObserverService: device added for udn 0b646803-bfb8-49dd-83de-e20551dfbf1b: org.openhome.net.controlpoint.CpDevice@647dbd0c
10:38:37.685 Thread-7: ObserverService: ignoring added device with udn 0b646803-bfb8-49dd-83de-e20551dfbf1b and state ADDED
10:38:37.686 Thread-769: AllComponentStatusChanged: notifyChange time=1615887517686
10:38:37.686 Thread-769: AllContextStatusChanged: notifyChange time=1615887517686
10:38:37.686 Thread-769: PropertyUpdatesChanged: notifyChange time=1615887517686
10:38:37.686 Thread-769: MonitorInitialEvent: notifyChange time=1615887517686
10:38:37.686 Thread-4: MonitorInitialEventAction starting
10:38:37.686 Thread-4: cancelling monitorCheckInitAction for DeviceMonitor org.jminim.lib.ObserverService$DeviceMonitor@51aa3853
10:38:37.686 Thread-4: initial value of AllContextStatus=runtimeContext,Running,consoleContext,Running,context0,Running,​watchContext,Running,monitorContext,Running,ohnetContext,Running,httpContext,Run​ning
10:38:37.686 Thread-4: initial value of AllComponentStatus=runtime,org.jminim.lib.RuntimeService,runtimeContext,Running,​console,org.jminim.lib.ConsoleService,consoleContext,Running,minimserver,com.min​imserver.Server,context0,Running,watch,com.minimserver.lib.WatchService,watchCon​text,Running,monitor,org.jminim.lib.MonitorService,monitorContext,Running,ohnet,​org.jminim.lib.OhNetService,ohnetContext,Running,http,org.jminim.lib.HTTPService​,httpContext,Running
10:38:37.686 Thread-4: DeviceMonitor notifyComponent: name=runtime, type=org.jminim.lib.RuntimeService, context=runtimeContext, status=Running
10:38:37.686 Thread-4: DeviceMonitor notifyContext: name=runtimeContext, status=Running
10:38:37.686 Thread-4: DeviceMonitor notifyComponent: name=console, type=org.jminim.lib.ConsoleService, context=consoleContext, status=Running
10:38:37.686 Thread-4: DeviceMonitor notifyContext: name=consoleContext, status=Running
10:38:37.686 Thread-4: DeviceMonitor notifyComponent: name=minimserver, type=com.minimserver.Server, context=context0, status=Running
10:38:37.686 Thread-4: ServerControl: monitoring server component minimserver, context context0
10:38:37.690 Thread-4: ServerControl: componentRunning event for minimserver
10:38:37.690 Thread-4: DeviceMonitor notifyContext: name=context0, status=Running
10:38:37.690 Thread-4: ServerControl: contextRunning event for context0
MinimServer[mini] is running
10:38:37.693 Thread-4: removing default tray icon
10:38:37.693 Thread-4: TrayView: removing tray icon
10:38:37.693 AWT-EventQueue-0: trayIcon popupMenu is java.awt.PopupMenu[popup0,label=,tearOff=false,isHelpMenu=false]
10:38:37.694 Thread-4: TrayView: waiting for X11 events
10:38:37.694 Thread-4: disposed popupMenu peer after 0 retries
10:38:37.694 Thread-4: got trayIcon peer
10:38:37.694 Thread-4: trayIcon peer class is sun.lwawt.macosx.CTrayIcon
10:38:37.694 Thread-4: trayIcon messageDialog is null
10:38:37.694 Thread-4: TrayView: removed tray icon
10:38:37.694 Thread-4: TrayView: adding tray icon
10:38:37.701 Thread-4: TrayView: added tray icon
10:38:37.701 AWT-EventQueue-0: TrayView: displaying tray icon tooltip: MinimServer[mini] is running
10:38:37.701 Thread-4: TrayView: running checkUpdates
10:38:37.701 Thread-4: TrayView.checkUpdates: adding update view for MinimServer[mini]
10:38:37.701 Thread-4: ServerControl: checkNewVersion action
10:38:37.701 Thread-794: TrayControl: running doCheckUpdates
10:38:37.701 Thread-794: TrayControl.doCheckUpdates: checking update offers for MinimServer[mini]
10:38:37.712 Thread-794: ServerControl.readCheckedUpdates: checkedUpdates=
10:38:37.712 Thread-4: doNextCheckNow: lastNewVersionCheck lastCheckedTime=0
10:38:37.716 Thread-794: ServerControl.checkOffer: updateFile=minimserver-2.jmupd
10:38:37.717 Thread-794: getUpdatePackages: updateFile=minimserver-2.jmupd
10:38:37.721 Thread-4: getNonUpdatePackages result=[MinimServer]
10:38:37.721 Thread-794: PackageManager: setting resourcePrefix to http://minimworld.com/
10:38:37.721 Thread-4: getProgramProperty progName=MinimServer propName=.newVersion result=
10:38:37.721 Thread-4: getProgramProperty progName=MinimServer propName=.newVersionURL result=
10:38:37.721 Thread-4: getProgramProperty progName=MinimServer propName=.versionUpdate result=
10:38:37.721 Thread-4: getProgramProperty progName=MinimServer propName=.versionUpdateURL result=
10:38:37.721 Thread-4: getProgramProperty progName=MinimServer propName=.update result=minimserver-2.jmupd
10:38:37.721 Thread-4: getUpdateProperties: updateFile=minimserver-2.jmupd
10:38:37.721 Thread-4: PackageManager: cached resourcePrefix is http://minimworld.com/
10:38:37.803 Thread-794: ServerControl.isPackageRequired: packageName=minimserver-update-187
10:38:37.803 Thread-794: isPackageRequired: minimserver-update-187 is already installed
10:38:37.803 Thread-794: TrayControl.doCheckUpdates: removing update view for MinimServer[mini]
10:38:37.803 Thread-794: TrayControl.doCheckUpdates: updateViews is empty
10:38:37.808 Thread-4: getProgramProperty progName=MinimServer propName=.version result=2.0.18
10:38:37.808 Thread-4: getNewVersionInfo: newVersion= name=MinimServer
10:38:37.808 Thread-4: DeviceMonitor notifyComponent: name=watch, type=com.minimserver.lib.WatchService, context=watchContext, status=Running
10:38:37.808 Thread-4: DeviceMonitor notifyContext: name=watchContext, status=Running
10:38:37.808 Thread-4: DeviceMonitor notifyComponent: name=monitor, type=org.jminim.lib.MonitorService, context=monitorContext, status=Running
10:38:37.808 Thread-4: DeviceMonitor notifyContext: name=monitorContext, status=Running
10:38:37.808 Thread-4: DeviceMonitor notifyComponent: name=ohnet, type=org.jminim.lib.OhNetService, context=ohnetContext, status=Running
10:38:37.808 Thread-4: DeviceMonitor notifyContext: name=ohnetContext, status=Running
10:38:37.808 Thread-4: DeviceMonitor notifyComponent: name=http, type=org.jminim.lib.HTTPService, context=httpContext, status=Running
10:38:37.808 Thread-4: DeviceMonitor notifyContext: name=httpContext, status=Running
10:38:37.808 Thread-4: initial value of PropertyUpdates=watch.serverView:1615887232144
10:38:37.808 Thread-4: DeviceMonitor notifyPropertyUpdate: name=watch.serverView
10:38:37.808 Thread-4: ServerControl: propertyUpdated event for watch.serverView
10:38:37.810 Thread-4: initialized DeviceMonitor org.jminim.lib.ObserverService$DeviceMonitor@51aa3853
10:38:37.810 Thread-4: MonitorInitialEventAction ended
10:38:41.680 Thread-1: MonitorCheckInitializedAction starting
10:38:41.680 Thread-1: monitorCheckInitialized: org.jminim.lib.ObserverService$DeviceMonitor@51aa3853
10:38:41.680 Thread-1: MonitorCheckInitializedAction ended

[simoncn]

Please don't post logs inline. It makes the forum hard to read. Please use a file attachment in future. Many thanks.

This log looks like the normal discovery of MinimServer by MinimWatch.

Please do the following:
1) Set the MinimWatch logging level (not MinimServer) to Debug
2) Set the MinimWatch ohnet.debug property (not MinimServer) to All
3) Exit MinimWatch and launch it again from the Applications folder
4) Wait for MinimServer to appear (if it does)
5) Try to provoke the problem by doing a MinimWatch Refresh
6) When the problem happens, save the MinimWatch log
7) Compress the log to save space and post it as a file attachment here