Post Reply 
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Multiple tags delimiter (e.g. Genre or Artist) syntax
22-12-2012, 00:31
Post: #11
RE: Multiple tags delimiter (e.g. Genre or Artist) syntax
(19-12-2012 11:41)bbrip Wrote:  Budgie,

stupid question maybe, but why dont you use mp3tag in the first place instead of Easytag, Doggytag and whatever they may be called? mp3tag is just the best und you can be sure that it stores multiple values for the same tag in multiple lines for that given tag.

BTW, in a Mac-Environment you can use this little tool http://sbooth.org/Tag/ to view whether multiple lines have been written by your tagging program. You need to move to "advanced" tab which lists all tags for a given file or folder that have been written.

bbrip
Two reasons;
I started using EasyTag a while ago and before I even considered needing multiple genres and "the first place" is now 20,000 tagged files ago!
I believe mp3tag is a windoze program. I understand it is one of the best but no use here. PuddleTag is pretty much the Linux equivalent and I am learning how to use it but old habits ....

Thanks for the suggestion but sadly no Mac machines here either.

Budgie.
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
22-12-2012, 17:02
Post: #12
RE: Multiple tags delimiter (e.g. Genre or Artist) syntax
ok, understand. Linux isnt my pair of shoes at all, so I stay shut Wink

happy holidayz
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
01-01-2013, 21:56
Post: #13
RE: Multiple tags delimiter (e.g. Genre or Artist) syntax
(19-12-2012 08:04)simoncn Wrote:  
(19-12-2012 01:19)Budgie Wrote:  Hi Simon,
The above is clear but I have run into problems because I tried to use \\ as delimiter when using Easytag and you have seen the results in my log file. I hope I can get round to re-tagging using Puddletag which works like Mp3tag but is there a way of looking at the tags in console so I can see and check that the lines
GENRE=
GENRE=
exist in the file rather than using the "indirect" tagging programme? For example how do you examine the actual tags in file?
Budgie

This apparently simple question is actually very difficult because of the different tagging formats that are used for different types of files. I'm not aware of any program that does a good job for this for all file types. I use a hex editor to look at file tags, but this requires extensive knowledge of the low-level tagging formats used by different types of files.

The following should work:

1) Put a single file into a test directory
2) Start MinimServer
3) Change contentDir to point to the test directory, and set the writeAllTags property to an output filename
4) Restart MinimServer
5) The output file whose name you set for writeAllTags will contain all the tagging information for that single file

Hi Simon,
I thought I would start on cleaning up my tagging using the minimserver log info to point me to problem files. I had assumed the issue had been caused by the undocumented delimiter that EasyTag inserted when I used the " - " sequence. If the same file is looked at in PuddleTag then sure enough the \\ delimiter is shown and I had these in the album titles of the problem albums. I cleaned them all out for a couple of albums by inserting an underscore instead, uploaded corrected versions to NAS and restarted minimserver but the same error message appears.

I then did as you suggested above with a test file and the tags look fine
Quote:ALBUM=Madrigali guerrieri ed amorosi_Libro VIII (René Jacobs)
ARTIST=Jacobs, René
COMPOSER=Monteverdi, Claudio
DATE=2002
GENRE=Vocal
TITLE=Canti guerrieri Sinfonia_Altri canti d'Amore, tenero arceiro
TRACKNUMBER=001

Are there any illegal characters such as : or other issues which could be the cause of the problem when minimserver scans the content directory?

Regards,
Budgie.
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
01-01-2013, 22:37
Post: #14
RE: Multiple tags delimiter (e.g. Genre or Artist) syntax
(01-01-2013 21:56)Budgie Wrote:  Hi Simon,
I thought I would start on cleaning up my tagging using the minimserver log info to point me to problem files. I had assumed the issue had been caused by the undocumented delimiter that EasyTag inserted when I used the " - " sequence. If the same file is looked at in PuddleTag then sure enough the \\ delimiter is shown and I had these in the album titles of the problem albums. I cleaned them all out for a couple of albums by inserting an underscore instead, uploaded corrected versions to NAS and restarted minimserver but the same error message appears.

From the discussion in this thread, it seems that puddletag can defeat MinimServer's cache updating by preserving the previous timestamp and file length when it makes tag changes. If you configure puddletag to modify the timestamp instead of preserving it, you should see what you're expecting. Alternatively, you can delete MinimServer's .mcache files, but this will cause a significant increase in startup time.

Quote:I then did as you suggested above with a test file and the tags look fine

ALBUM=Madrigali guerrieri ed amorosi_Libro VIII (René Jacobs)
ARTIST=Jacobs, René
COMPOSER=Monteverdi, Claudio
DATE=2002
GENRE=Vocal
TITLE=Canti guerrieri Sinfonia_Altri canti d'Amore, tenero arceiro
TRACKNUMBER=001

Are there any illegal characters such as : or other issues which could be the cause of the problem when minimserver scans the content directory?

Regards,
Budgie.

There aren't any illegal characters. I think you'll find the problem is caused by caching issues as described above.
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
01-01-2013, 23:33
Post: #15
RE: Multiple tags delimiter (e.g. Genre or Artist) syntax
(01-01-2013 22:37)simoncn Wrote:  
(01-01-2013 21:56)Budgie Wrote:  Hi Simon,
I thought I would start on cleaning up my tagging using the minimserver log info to point me to problem files. I had assumed the issue had been caused by the undocumented delimiter that EasyTag inserted when I used the " - " sequence. If the same file is looked at in PuddleTag then sure enough the \\ delimiter is shown and I had these in the album titles of the problem albums. I cleaned them all out for a couple of albums by inserting an underscore instead, uploaded corrected versions to NAS and restarted minimserver but the same error message appears.

From the discussion in this thread, it seems that puddletag can defeat MinimServer's cache updating by preserving the previous timestamp and file length when it makes tag changes. If you configure puddletag to modify the timestamp instead of preserving it, you should see what you're expecting. Alternatively, you can delete MinimServer's .mcache files, but this will cause a significant increase in startup time.

Quote:I then did as you suggested above with a test file and the tags look fine

ALBUM=Madrigali guerrieri ed amorosi_Libro VIII (René Jacobs)
ARTIST=Jacobs, René
COMPOSER=Monteverdi, Claudio
DATE=2002
GENRE=Vocal
TITLE=Canti guerrieri Sinfonia_Altri canti d'Amore, tenero arceiro
TRACKNUMBER=001

Are there any illegal characters such as : or other issues which could be the cause of the problem when minimserver scans the content directory?

Regards,
Budgie.

There aren't any illegal characters. I think you'll find the problem is caused by caching issues as described above.
Hi Simon,
Once again many thanks. In fact I have been caught out by the preserve time stamp issue before so I that option is not set, so I don't know why minimserver didn't pick up the changes. I will flush the cache and try again.
Budgie
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
02-01-2013, 00:46
Post: #16
RE: Multiple tags delimiter (e.g. Genre or Artist) syntax
Hi Simon,
I regret to say I still have not been able to sort out any of the albums for which minimserver log reports "conflicting album tag value". I deleted all the .mcache files and restarted minimserver but the new log shows the same problem albums/files even the ones which I have re edited using puddletag.
Should I increase minimserver logging level and could you help me dig deeper please?
Budgie.
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
07-01-2014, 09:56
Post: #17
RE: Multiple tags delimiter (e.g. Genre or Artist) syntax
I thought I'd append a new question to this thread as it is related though perhaps more basic.

Like others I've been a user of Twonky in the past and my file tagging has reflected what Twonky would accept. So, for instance, I've been able to get away with using commas to separate multiple items in a particular category such as Genre, or Artist. So, if I put 'R&B,Soul,Pop' under Genre it will then show up accordingly under each of those genre classifications in the browsing tree (in Twonky).

It looks as though I need to change that rather casual usage of commas to use the formal \\ delimiter described elsewhere in this thread. However I have a couple of queries:

1. I'm not quite clear on whether simply shoving a \\ into my Genre field actually achieves two separate Genre entries for that file. If it does, great; if not, then how do I achieve it? I am using MP3TAG, by the way.

2. I am not looking forward to manually going through my database and changing commas for \\. Can anyone describe to me simply how I could automatically do that in MP3TAG? I'm generally a quick learner at these things but I am not experienced at using things like scripts. A muppet's guide to how to automatically re-tag would be just incredibly helpful.

3. Finally, and just to complicate things a bit, I have been a bit inconsistent about my use of commas as a delimiter. In some places just a comma separates two categories; in other places there is a blank after the comma. Guidance on how to select either ',' or ', ' to be replaced with \\ again very helpful.

Thanks,
Richard
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
07-01-2014, 10:05 (This post was last modified: 07-01-2014 10:06 by simoncn.)
Post: #18
RE: Multiple tags delimiter (e.g. Genre or Artist) syntax
(07-01-2014 09:56)rweten Wrote:  I thought I'd append a new question to this thread as it is related though perhaps more basic.

Like others I've been a user of Twonky in the past and my file tagging has reflected what Twonky would accept. So, for instance, I've been able to get away with using commas to separate multiple items in a particular category such as Genre, or Artist. So, if I put 'R&B,Soul,Pop' under Genre it will then show up accordingly under each of those genre classifications in the browsing tree (in Twonky).

It looks as though I need to change that rather casual usage of commas to use the formal \\ delimiter described elsewhere in this thread. However I have a couple of queries:

1. I'm not quite clear on whether simply shoving a \\ into my Genre field actually achieves two separate Genre entries for that file. If it does, great; if not, then how do I achieve it? I am using MP3TAG, by the way.

This should work. You can start by trying it on a single tag to confirm it does what you expect.

Quote:2. I am not looking forward to manually going through my database and changing commas for \\. Can anyone describe to me simply how I could automatically do that in MP3TAG? I'm generally a quick learner at these things but I am not experienced at using things like scripts. A muppet's guide to how to automatically re-tag would be just incredibly helpful.

I know there is a simple way to do this in Mp3tag (split on delimiter) but I haven't done it myself.

Quote:3. Finally, and just to complicate things a bit, I have been a bit inconsistent about my use of commas as a delimiter. In some places just a comma separates two categories; in other places there is a blank after the comma. Guidance on how to select either ',' or ', ' to be replaced with \\ again very helpful.

Thanks,
Richard

This isn't essential, as MinimServer will automatically ignore leading and trailing blanks in tag values. However, if it were my library, I would prefer the tags to be exactly correct. You should be able to do this by making two passes. On the first pass you would split on the delimiter ', ' and on the second pass you would split on the delimiter ','.
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
07-01-2014, 19:44
Post: #19
RE: Multiple tags delimiter (e.g. Genre or Artist) syntax
(07-01-2014 09:56)rweten Wrote:  1. I'm not quite clear on whether simply shoving a \\ into my Genre field actually achieves two separate Genre entries for that file. If it does, great; if not, then how do I achieve it? I am using MP3TAG, by the way.

2. I am not looking forward to manually going through my database and changing commas for \\. Can anyone describe to me simply how I could automatically do that in MP3TAG? I'm generally a quick learner at these things but I am not experienced at using things like scripts. A muppet's guide to how to automatically re-tag would be just incredibly helpful.

3. Finally, and just to complicate things a bit, I have been a bit inconsistent about my use of commas as a delimiter. In some places just a comma separates two categories; in other places there is a blank after the comma. Guidance on how to select either ',' or ', ' to be replaced with \\ again very helpful.

With Mp3tag you can easily achieve what you've described. The following steps apply for the latest version of Mp3tag (2.58):

1) Open Mp3tag and load some tracks, select one of the loaded tracks.
2) Open Actions -> Actions
3) In the now opened 'Action groups' window click the top button on the right side to create a new Action group. You can name the group arbitrarily, for example 'splitTags'.
4) In the now opened 'Actions' window click the top button on the right side to create a new Action.
5) Choose 'Split field by separator' and click OK.
6) Now choose the tag whose values you want to split and put just a comma into the 'Separator' field. Mp3tag will take care of leading and trailing blanks automatically. Click OK.
7) Repeat steps 4) to 6) for each tag whose values you want to split.
8) Press OK and close the Actions and Action goups dialogs.
9) Select the files you want to process. Open the Action groups dialog again, select the Action group created in step 3) and click OK.

I recommend to apply this to just a small subset of your library in a first try to see whether you get the expected results.
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
08-01-2014, 22:42
Post: #20
RE: Multiple tags delimiter (e.g. Genre or Artist) syntax
That's really helpful - just ran this on a test selection and it worked fine first time. Easy when you know how. Many thanks for taking the time to describe like this.

Richard
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply 


Forum Jump:


User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)