Playing BBC Radio AAC stream

[wallydaw]

Hi
I am very much a beginner at all this!

I have attempted to get Minimserver/Streamer to stream the high quality BBC radio HLS/AAC streams to my Denon DNP 720AE network audio player. I can access the m3u playlist from the Denon, but when I try to play a stream, nothing happens.
The m3u playlistfile is OK - I can open it and play radio stations in Windows media Player.

Should the AAC stream be transcoded?

IF anyone out there has had success, do let me know!

[simoncn]

(30-03-2015 17:51)wallydaw Wrote:  Hi
I am very much a beginner at all this!

I have attempted to get Minimserver/Streamer to stream the high quality BBC radio HLS/AAC streams to my Denon DNP 720AE network audio player. I can access the m3u playlist from the Denon, but when I try to play a stream, nothing happens.
The m3u playlistfile is OK - I can open it and play radio stations in Windows media Player.

Should the AAC stream be transcoded?

IF anyone out there has had success, do let me know!

You could try transcoding the stream using the *:L16 setting.

[wallydaw]

Yes - success if ffmpeg is installed. The following might be useful for the confused among us.
There is a good video on YouTube showing the correct procedure to install ffmpeg: https://youtu.be/xcdTIDHm4KM
Once you have done this and restarted your computer, open MinimServer properties (click up arrow in system tray, right - click MinimServer icon then choose Properties).
Click the system tab then enter ffmpeg in the stream.converter box and *:L16 in the stream.transcode box.
Click Apply then OK.
Now try to open the stream on your network audio player.

[Tell]

That's the same equipment the partner has (Denon DNP 720AE network audio player) that I bought them a few years back. You don't have to do the transcode via FFMPEG although I have though that might be a good idea if a technical issue pops up again. You can use via setting up custom URLs to Minimstreamer.

Now Denon did play a hiding game a few years back to the website of where you place your added stations moving it around. You make them added stations. The URL is this

http://www.radiodenon.com/setupapp/denon...uthErr=sp2

That will get you to where you have to register your model, and get a login.

Then cast your eye on Simon's documentation "Playing BBC HLS radio streams on an internet radio", point 8 specifically:

http://minimradio.com/

Then on the Denon you fill in five boxes for each station saving it as an added station, then you can pull it back via added stations from the Denon site that appears on the menu. This might all be new to you if you have never added stations and I only get to play with the equipment every couple of weeks. The main thing is to get the URL in and you can call it's MP3 or whatever that is not important as far as setting up your favourite URLs. Leave transcode blank in Minimstreamer.

What this method does is to ship the stream around as an AAC via the network and leaves the tuner to decode (render) the sound rather than it being done in MinimStream itself. It may be deemed to be better possibly if the rendering is matched to the equipment via a Denon honed sound shaping etc.

Saying this there has been a couple of glitches in the last month or so since I set up with some strange sound effects normally when I'm taxing the network, but OK when I'm not there. Simon gave me a parameter to try out but since TalkTalk / BT line was down this weekend I couldn't try it. The parameter just increases the HLS stream buffer as I understand it.

At home where I have Mininstream working with Neet Air-Stream the AAC out of Minimserver was much more problematic going from a Raspbery Pi to the Neet so I opted for the WAV transcode but as said on the Denon no upfront transcode it's just being piped in the network as AAC (think the NEET box couldn't exercise good flow control on the data from the Raspberry Pi as AAC as the Denon could on a Raspbery Pi - Pi on both). Now I suspect if there were real problems with the Denon then transcoding up front in MinimStreamer would be useful but if you can defer it to the Denon that I think is possibly better.

My thread on the Denon

https://forum.minimserver.com/showthread.php?tid=2254

I asked Simon about control points on another thread for the Denon but he deferred me to Denon - I probably won't do that parse the parcel and pension liberation etc. Control points via the Denon's own rotator knob dropping down the menu would be easier than setting up URLs as added stations but that's only a one time thing that you do. I did wonder whether there was something that you could do to cokes the Denon to do this or whether it was the graphics it was stumbling on. Since partners happy I'm leaving alone apart from trying out except the delayHLS. parameter to see if it fixes the odd glitches. Then if the glitches (two so far in a month) get worse then I'm going to look at transcoding but as said since the internet was down this weekend I could not experiment with the delay parameter or attempt to create more issues.

I would be interested to know whether it runs smoothly for you without the transcode and whether you need to use the delay parameter.....

Looks like you may be doing the option that I was going to try if the URL method gave further issues unless you are using the URL with the transcode ?. On the transcode it's the balance of whether you think your equipment has better sound shaping software in it than the FFMPEG and how your equipment deals with what you have transcoded. The AAC packaged and shipped is going to be smaller than unpacking and shipping - let Simon discuss those merits. I'd have to look at the Denon manual and think what wave form it would unpack out of the AAC 16 or 24 bit and whether it's being cut short by making it L16. hmmm looking at the manual I think the l16 business is part of the DNLA network mode rather than anything else.

Thing this is the big debate of whether to transcode in MinimStream if you don't have to or leave it up to your renderer and which is best. Whether you have to is whether there is a technical reason for it not working if you don't transcode and then you don't have the ability to have the debate since there isn't an option.

[wallydaw]

(31-03-2015 20:22)Tell Wrote:  That's the same equipment the partner has (Denon DNP 720AE network audio player) that I bought them a few years back. You don't have to do the transcode via FFMPEG although I have though that might be a good idea if a technical issue pops up again. You can use via setting up custom URLs to Minimstreamer.

Now Denon did play a hiding game a few years back to the website of where you place your added stations moving it around. You make them added stations. The URL is this

http://www.radiodenon.com/setupapp/denon...uthErr=sp2

That will get you to where you have to register your model, and get a login.

All VERY interesting! I will have a chance to try things out in the next few days. Many thanks for your input.

Then cast your eye on Simon's documentation "Playing BBC HLS radio streams on an internet radio", point 8 specifically:

http://minimradio.com/

Then on the Denon you fill in five boxes for each station saving it as an added station, then you can pull it back via added stations from the Denon site that appears on the menu. This might all be new to you if you have never added stations and I only get to play with the equipment every couple of weeks. The main thing is to get the URL in and you can call it's MP3 or whatever that is not important as far as setting up your favourite URLs. Leave transcode blank in Minimstreamer.

What this method does is to ship the stream around as an AAC via the network and leaves the tuner to decode (render) the sound rather than it being done in MinimStream itself. It may be deemed to be better possibly if the rendering is matched to the equipment via a Denon honed sound shaping etc.

Saying this there has been a couple of glitches in the last month or so since I set up with some strange sound effects normally when I'm taxing the network, but OK when I'm not there. Simon gave me a parameter to try out but since TalkTalk / BT line was down this weekend I couldn't try it. The parameter just increases the HLS stream buffer as I understand it.

At home where I have Mininstream working with Neet Air-Stream the AAC out of Minimserver was much more problematic going from a Raspbery Pi to the Neet so I opted for the WAV transcode but as said on the Denon no upfront transcode it's just being piped in the network as AAC (think the NEET box couldn't exercise good flow control on the data from the Raspberry Pi as AAC as the Denon could on a Raspbery Pi - Pi on both). Now I suspect if there were real problems with the Denon then transcoding up front in MinimStreamer would be useful but if you can defer it to the Denon that I think is possibly better.

My thread on the Denon

https://forum.minimserver.com/showthread.php?tid=2254

I asked Simon about control points on another thread for the Denon but he deferred me to Denon - I probably won't do that parse the parcel and pension liberation etc. Control points via the Denon's own rotator knob dropping down the menu would be easier than setting up URLs as added stations but that's only a one time thing that you do. I did wonder whether there was something that you could do to cokes the Denon to do this or whether it was the graphics it was stumbling on. Since partners happy I'm leaving alone apart from trying out except the delayHLS. parameter to see if it fixes the odd glitches. Then if the glitches (two so far in a month) get worse then I'm going to look at transcoding but as said since the internet was down this weekend I could not experiment with the delay parameter or attempt to create more issues.

I would be interested to know whether it runs smoothly for you without the transcode and whether you need to use the delay parameter.....

Looks like you may be doing the option that I was going to try if the URL method gave further issues unless you are using the URL with the transcode ?. On the transcode it's the balance of whether you think your equipment has better sound shaping software in it than the FFMPEG and how your equipment deals with what you have transcoded. The AAC packaged and shipped is going to be smaller than unpacking and shipping - let Simon discuss those merits. I'd have to look at the Denon manual and think what wave form it would unpack out of the AAC 16 or 24 bit and whether it's being cut short by making it L16. hmmm looking at the manual I think the l16 business is part of the DNLA network mode rather than anything else.

Thing this is the big debate of whether to transcode in MinimStream if you don't have to or leave it up to your renderer and which is best. Whether you have to is whether there is a technical reason for it not working if you don't transcode and then you don't have the ability to have the debate since there isn't an option.

[Tell]

I think I might have missed the answer ?. Would it be true to say that your Denon 720 has been working perfectly with the L16 parameter ?.

From Simon's page

http://minimstreamer.com/bbcradio.html

Point 10:

>>
This might not work with some UPnP renderers that don't support playing AAC ADTS network streams. In this case, you might be able to get the stream to play by putting the setting *:L16 or *:wav into the stream.transcode field and restarting MinimServer.
<<

Reported still get the fast forward sound effect with the AAC ADTS network streams, twice on one day Tuesday this week and once on Wednesday. I have as yet not increased the HLS delay due to the box not being here. Thinking whether to go for the L16 transcode or one week with Simon's increase delay parameter and if that fails the L16. Reading the Denon materiel although L16 isn't talked about it does claim to handle 24 bit so you would think L24 would work. Have you tried that ?.

Think I'll load up the ANCONV on the Raspberry Pi this weekend where it's being brought over ready to test transcode in a weeks time and set the HLS delay parameter for it's return installation to be tested in the next week. Then transcode next weekend if it's still playing up / experiment.