Gap between tracks

[DavidHB]

(24-11-2014 18:15)simoncn Wrote:  I have found surprisingly few players that can play gapless when controlled by a UPnP/DLNA control point such as BubbleUPnP or JRiver (this requires support for the SetNextAVTransportURI service action). According to this post, the Denon DNP-F109 has this support.

Which devices have you found? I presume you would exclude from your list any devices that achieve gapless play by means other than the standard UPnP service action. Now I think about it, your and my Linn players may come in this category; the documentation for my Akurate DSM indicates that gapless may not be available if the reversionary UPnP AV source is used, rather than the standard Playlist (which presumably uses Linn's OpenHome protocol).

We are also bedevilled by changing and sometimes ambiguous specifications. For instance, a post in the thread to which you linked indicates that the Cambridge Audio Stream Magic 6 lacks the gapless capability, but the specification on the Cambridge Audio states without qualification that this device does play gapless. The thread is well over a year old and there may have been a firmware update in the meantime, so it is not necessarily the case that the posted advice was incorrect at the time.

David

[simoncn]

(24-11-2014 20:04)DavidHB Wrote:  Which devices have you found? I presume you would exclude from your list any devices that achieve gapless play by means other than the standard UPnP service action. Now I think about it, your and my Linn players may come in this category; the documentation for my Akurate DSM indicates that gapless may not be available if the reversionary UPnP AV source is used, rather than the standard Playlist (which presumably uses Linn's OpenHome protocol).

We are also bedevilled by changing and sometimes ambiguous specifications. For instance, a post in the thread to which you linked indicates that the Cambridge Audio Stream Magic 6 lacks the gapless capability, but the specification on the Cambridge Audio states without qualification that this device does play gapless. The thread is well over a year old and there may have been a firmware update in the meantime, so it is not necessarily the case that the posted advice was incorrect at the time.

David

It is said that there's a first time for everything, and this is the first time I have posted a Twitter link. This seems to indicate that like many other DLNA players, the Stream Magic 6 supports gapless playback in "pull mode" from its own UI but not in "push mode" using standard UPnP interfaces from other UPnP or DLNA control points.

The Linn devices that support gapless playback do so by implementing the Linn OpenHome ohMedia extensions to the UPnP standards. These extensions are also supported by some other players and by a few control points. Unfortunately, these players all seem to be fairly expensive.

The OP was concerned about spending more than €1000, so I have been looking for players costing less than this that definitely support either OpenHome gapless or SetNextAVTransportURI gapless. So far, the only one I have found is the Denon DNP-F109.

[Peter StreamMagic]

(24-11-2014 20:44)simoncn Wrote:  

(24-11-2014 20:04)DavidHB Wrote:  Which devices have you found? I presume you would exclude from your list any devices that achieve gapless play by means other than the standard UPnP service action. Now I think about it, your and my Linn players may come in this category; the documentation for my Akurate DSM indicates that gapless may not be available if the reversionary UPnP AV source is used, rather than the standard Playlist (which presumably uses Linn's OpenHome protocol).

We are also bedevilled by changing and sometimes ambiguous specifications. For instance, a post in the thread to which you linked indicates that the Cambridge Audio Stream Magic 6 lacks the gapless capability, but the specification on the Cambridge Audio states without qualification that this device does play gapless. The thread is well over a year old and there may have been a firmware update in the meantime, so it is not necessarily the case that the posted advice was incorrect at the time.

David

It is said that there's a first time for everything, and this is the first time I have posted a Twitter link. This seems to indicate that like many other DLNA players, the Stream Magic 6 supports gapless playback in "pull mode" from its own UI but not in "push mode" using standard UPnP interfaces from other UPnP or DLNA control points.

The Linn devices that support gapless playback do so by implementing the Linn OpenHome ohMedia extensions to the UPnP standards. These extensions are also supported by some other players and by a few control points. Unfortunately, these players all seem to be fairly expensive.

The OP was concerned about spending more than €1000, so I have been looking for players costing less than this that definitely support either OpenHome gapless or SetNextAVTransportURI gapless. So far, the only one I have found is the Denon DNP-F109.

The StreamMagic 6 only plays gapless using either Bubble UPnP or the Cambridge Audio app.
Common used controlpoints such as PlugPlayer won't work with the SM 6.
There are also issues with volume control using other than CA apps.

Peter

[simoncn]

(24-11-2014 22:48)Peter StreamMagic Wrote:  The StreamMagic 6 only plays gapless using either Bubble UPnP or the Cambridge Audio app.
Common used controlpoints such as PlugPlayer won't work with the SM 6.
There are also issues with volume control using other than CA apps.

Peter

It is interesting to hear that gapless playback works with BubbleUPnP. This must mean that (contrary to what I have read elsewhere), the Stream Magic 6 does support SetNextAVTransportURI.

[Andre Gosselin]

(24-11-2014 23:15)simoncn Wrote:  

(24-11-2014 22:48)Peter StreamMagic Wrote:  The StreamMagic 6 only plays gapless using either Bubble UPnP or the Cambridge Audio app.
Common used controlpoints such as PlugPlayer won't work with the SM 6.
There are also issues with volume control using other than CA apps.

Peter

It is interesting to hear that gapless playback works with BubbleUPnP. This must mean that (contrary to what I have read elsewhere), the Stream Magic 6 does support SetNextAVTransportURI.

Similarly to the StreamMagic 6, the SimAudio Moon Mind renderer also supports gapless playback using BubbleUPnP or its own IOS app.

Cheers

[simoncn]

(24-11-2014 23:46)Andre Gosselin Wrote:  Similarly to the StreamMagic 6, the SimAudio Moon Mind renderer also supports gapless playback using BubbleUPnP or its own IOS app.

It is likely that this applies to Denon players as well. I have corrected the misleading statement that I made in this post.

[Leixuros]

I found now the Marantz Melody stream. It supports gapless playback for FLAC and WAV. (ALAC would be better for my situation, but it’s an Apple problem that iTunes doesn’t support FLAC. ) About the Denon devices I looked at the support told me either that it doesn’t support gapless playback at all or not if one uses the app. But this Marantz model is exactly what I was looking for, I’m just testing and hope it has no other fault...

I have just one more question an add it here directly: It seems that I can go forward or backward only whole tracks, not some seconds or so. Os this a problem with Minim Server or with the device?

I’m not sure at all if somebody who speaks english well can understand what I mean. May b somenody who speaks german can translate my english in english? )

[simoncn]

(25-11-2014 18:48)Leixuros Wrote:  I found now the Marantz Melody stream. It supports gapless playback for FLAC and WAV. (ALAC would be better for my situation, but it’s an Apple problem that iTunes doesn’t support FLAC. ) About the Denon devices I looked at the support told me either that it doesn’t support gapless playback at all or not if one uses the app. But this Marantz model is exactly what I was looking for, I’m just testing and hope it has no other fault...

I have just one more question an add it here directly: It seems that I can go forward or backward only whole tracks, not some seconds or so. Os this a problem with Minim Server or with the device?

I’m not sure at all if somebody who speaks english well can understand what I mean. May b somenody who speaks german can translate my english in english? )

MinimServer supports byte-range seeking, so going backwards and forwards within a track would work if the renderer sends the correct HTTP Range headers to MinimServer. For example, this is working with my Linn DS renderer.

[Leixuros]

Aha. Thank you. It doesn’t work with my device, but this is a minor problem.

But I found another one: I must transcode my files to FLAC. This is easy and anyway good idea. There is just one problem: The Grouping-Tag is lost when I transcode ALAC or other AAC files to FLAC. What Can I do to avoid this? I tried to transcode file with Helium Music Manager, Media Monkey and ffmpeg, always with the same result. But I need the Grouping tag and can’t put for all the files this tag manual. I couldn’t find an option for ffmpeg to set the tags. Is there anything I can do? (I hope, this will be the last problem, otherwise I’ll delete all the music files and use only compact discs in the future...

[simoncn]

(25-11-2014 22:28)Leixuros Wrote:  Aha. Thank you. It doesn’t work with my device, but this is a minor problem.

But I found another one: I must transcode my files to FLAC. This is easy and anyway good idea. There is just one problem: The Grouping-Tag is lost when I transcode ALAC or other AAC files to FLAC. What Can I do to avoid this? I tried to transcode file with Helium Music Manager, Media Monkey and ffmpeg, always with the same result. But I need the Grouping tag and can’t put for all the files this tag manual. I couldn’t find an option for ffmpeg to set the tags. Is there anything I can do? (I hope, this will be the last problem, otherwise I’ll delete all the music files and use only compact discs in the future...

You can convert the files using dBpoweramp. This should translate the iTunes Grouping tag to a CONTENTGROUP tag in the FLAC file.