BBC radio streams not working

[Pastim]

(04-03-2015 13:38)simoncn Wrote:  

(21-02-2015 00:31)Pastim Wrote:  From the point of view of an ill-informed user such as myself, having one (set of) transcode setting(s) for UPnP, and a separate set for Internet Radio (if that's ever to be supported) would be easy enough to understand and manage. They could be separate by syntax, or a separate property. I have, of course, no idea if that would be easy of difficult to implement.

Just a thought.

There is an existing setting that does something very similar to this. If you put this in the stream.transcode property:

*:wav24/-^

a UPnP control point will play the stream with transcoding and the radio URL preset in an internet radio will play the stream without transcoding.

That makes my brain hurt a little. I think it says:

"For an unknown codec default to the original codec, else use wav24"

Surely everything will end up with the original?

If my bbc m3u file has ;aac specified then this will presumably not work,a dn would have to be aac:wav24/-^, but surely everything just ends up as aac in that case?

[simoncn]

(04-03-2015 18:28)Pastim Wrote:  That makes my brain hurt a little. I think it says:

"For an unknown codec default to the original codec, else use wav24"

No, it is telling MinimServer/MinimStreamer to create two resource URLs. Resource #1 is a transcoded stream and resource #2 is the untranscoded original stream. The ^ on resource #2 tells MinimStreamer to use this stream for the radio-style short URL. When playing the stream using UPnP, the control point will use resource #1 because it's first in the list.

Quote:Surely everything will end up with the original?

If my bbc m3u file has ;aac specified then this will presumably not work,a dn would have to be aac:wav24/-^, but surely everything just ends up as aac in that case?

Yes, you would need to use aac:wav24/-^ in this case. I've tried it and it works.

[Reg]

(03-03-2015 10:20)simoncn Wrote:  

(02-03-2015 23:28)Reg Wrote:  Still no luck.. Seems like I shall have to accept defeat. Thanks to everyone who has tried to help

Does "no luck" mean that you are still getting the Illegal MIME type Error 714 from BubbleUPnP?

This error is probably caused by having "Mime-type check" enabled under UPnP Tweaks in your BubbleUPnP settings. Please try disabling this check and try again with BubbleUPnP.

Please also try clearing the UPnP cache in the Naim app and try again with that.

Been away for a day so going to give this one more try.
Still getting Mime message. Tried turning off and on the Mime type check in Bubble. Still no Music.
Cleared UPNP cache in Naim. Still no music
Unistalled MinimWatch on sitting room PC; no difference
ffmpeg is what I have in streamer
Everything else is working flawlessly as usual

Reg

[simoncn]

(04-03-2015 20:20)Reg Wrote:  Been away for a day so going to give this one more try.
Still getting Mime message. Tried turning off and on the Mime type check in Bubble. Still no Music.
Cleared UPNP cache in Naim. Still no music
Unistalled MinimWatch on sitting room PC; no difference
ffmpeg is what I have in streamer
Everything else is working flawlessly as usual

Reg

When you turned off the MIME type check in BubbleUPnP, did that make the 714 error message go away?

[Pastim]

(04-03-2015 20:15)simoncn Wrote:  

(04-03-2015 18:28)Pastim Wrote:  That makes my brain hurt a little. I think it says:

"For an unknown codec default to the original codec, else use wav24"

No, it is telling MinimServer/MinimStreamer to create two resource URLs. Resource #1 is a transcoded stream and resource #2 is the untranscoded original stream. The ^ on resource #2 tells MinimStreamer to use this stream for the radio-style short URL. When playing the stream using UPnP, the control point will use resource #1 because it's first in the list.

Quote:Surely everything will end up with the original?

If my bbc m3u file has ;aac specified then this will presumably not work,a dn would have to be aac:wav24/-^, but surely everything just ends up as aac in that case?

Yes, you would need to use aac:wav24/-^ in this case. I've tried it and it works.

When I read the user guide it says "For a network stream whose original type is unspecified, the choice of output type is made by MinimStreamer (not the control point) when MinimServer opens the stream and discovers its type. By default, MinimStreamer chooses the first output type in the list. You can override this default choice by adding a ^ (caret) character after the output type that you want MinimStreamer to choose. For example, the transcoding combination aac:L16/wav24^ tells MinimStreamer to choose wav24 if it discovers that the network stream type is AAC."

Sorry, I'm must be being very thick but I cannot make any sense of this versus what you have told me, and I'm not good at using a setting I can't comprehend (not least because when I look at it in 6 months time I'll need to be able to understand it). The description states that MinimStreamer makes the choice, not the CP. You talk about short URLs, but I'm not sure what you are referring to.

Unfortunately it's not easy for me to know the result of a test because neither of my renderers tells me the type of stream it is receiving.

So I am clearly missing something fundamental.

Sorry.

[simoncn]

(04-03-2015 22:11)Pastim Wrote:  When I read the user guide it says "For a network stream whose original type is unspecified, the choice of output type is made by MinimStreamer (not the control point) when MinimServer opens the stream and discovers its type. By default, MinimStreamer chooses the first output type in the list. You can override this default choice by adding a ^ (caret) character after the output type that you want MinimStreamer to choose. For example, the transcoding combination aac:L16/wav24^ tells MinimStreamer to choose wav24 if it discovers that the network stream type is AAC."

Sorry, I'm must be being very thick but I cannot make any sense of this versus what you have told me, and I'm not good at using a setting I can't comprehend (not least because when I look at it in 6 months time I'll need to be able to understand it). The description states that MinimStreamer makes the choice, not the CP. You talk about short URLs, but I'm not sure what you are referring to.

Unfortunately it's not easy for me to know the result of a test because neither of my renderers tells me the type of stream it is receiving.

So I am clearly missing something fundamental.

Sorry.

The control point is choosing the first stream by default. This is what it is supposed to do unless it finds that the first stream is incompatible with the renderer.

MinimStreamer also chooses the first stream by default unless there is a caret marker for one of the streams. In this case, the caret is on the second stream, so MinimStreamer chooses the second stream when a URL of the form

http://x.x.x.x:9790/minimstreamer/*/XX

is used as an internet radio custom stream. This is the "short URL" that has been discussed previously on this thread.

[Pastim]

(04-03-2015 22:27)simoncn Wrote:  

(04-03-2015 22:11)Pastim Wrote:  When I read the user guide it says "For a network stream whose original type is unspecified, the choice of output type is made by MinimStreamer (not the control point) when MinimServer opens the stream and discovers its type. By default, MinimStreamer chooses the first output type in the list. You can override this default choice by adding a ^ (caret) character after the output type that you want MinimStreamer to choose. For example, the transcoding combination aac:L16/wav24^ tells MinimStreamer to choose wav24 if it discovers that the network stream type is AAC."

Sorry, I'm must be being very thick but I cannot make any sense of this versus what you have told me, and I'm not good at using a setting I can't comprehend (not least because when I look at it in 6 months time I'll need to be able to understand it). The description states that MinimStreamer makes the choice, not the CP. You talk about short URLs, but I'm not sure what you are referring to.

Unfortunately it's not easy for me to know the result of a test because neither of my renderers tells me the type of stream it is receiving.

So I am clearly missing something fundamental.

Sorry.

The control point is choosing the first stream by default. This is what it is supposed to do unless it finds that the first stream is incompatible with the renderer.

MinimStreamer also chooses the first stream by default unless there is a caret marker for one of the streams. In this case, the caret is on the second stream, so MinimStreamer chooses the second stream when a URL of the form

http://x.x.x.x:9790/minimstreamer/*/XX

is used as an internet radio custom stream. This is the "short URL" that has been discussed previously on this thread.

I'll have to sleep on this. It is clearly obvious to you, but there must be something fundamental I am missing. Why is the CP making a choice, or Minimstreamer making a choice? The user guide says (I believe) that if the original source codec is unknown (and therefore being matched with * in the transcode setting) it's MinimStreamer making the choice, so why isn't it the same for both UPnP and Internet Radio?

When the source codec is known (by specifying ;aac) I can just about understand that the CP picks the 1st one (since the 'unknown' rule does not apply), but where it's Internet Radio there is no CP so MinimStreamer picks the default with the ^.

I'm pretty sure that some of my puzzlement is because you see something obvious in the difference between Internet Radio and UPnP that I don't, because I don't understand the technology. I tend to think that if the mechanisms really are that different it's always going to be hard for me to tease out what the transcode settings actually mean in every case when all are specified in one place but mean rather different things. I probably need a flow chart to work it out.

[simoncn]

(04-03-2015 23:08)Pastim Wrote:  I'll have to sleep on this. It is clearly obvious to you, but there must be something fundamental I am missing. Why is the CP making a choice, or Minimstreamer making a choice? The user guide says (I believe) that if the original source codec is unknown (and therefore being matched with * in the transcode setting) it's MinimStreamer making the choice, so why isn't it the same for both UPnP and Internet Radio?

When the source codec is known (by specifying ;aac) I can just about understand that the CP picks the 1st one (since the 'unknown' rule does not apply), but where it's Internet Radio there is no CP so MinimStreamer picks the default with the ^.

I'm pretty sure that some of my puzzlement is because you see something obvious in the difference between Internet Radio and UPnP that I don't, because I don't understand the technology. I tend to think that if the mechanisms really are that different it's always going to be hard for me to tease out what the transcode settings actually mean in every case when all are specified in one place but mean rather different things. I probably need a flow chart to work it out.

It is much simpler than you appear to be thinking.

The UPnP control point gets two stream URLs (#1 and #2) and chooses #1 unless it has a reason not to do that.

The internet radio gets one stream URL (#2) so it has to choose that URL because it doesn't know about the other one.

URL #1 plays the stream with transcoding. URL #2 plays the stream without transcoding because of the ^.

[Pastim]

(04-03-2015 23:15)simoncn Wrote:  

(04-03-2015 23:08)Pastim Wrote:  I'll have to sleep on this. It is clearly obvious to you, but there must be something fundamental I am missing. Why is the CP making a choice, or Minimstreamer making a choice? The user guide says (I believe) that if the original source codec is unknown (and therefore being matched with * in the transcode setting) it's MinimStreamer making the choice, so why isn't it the same for both UPnP and Internet Radio?

When the source codec is known (by specifying ;aac) I can just about understand that the CP picks the 1st one (since the 'unknown' rule does not apply), but where it's Internet Radio there is no CP so MinimStreamer picks the default with the ^.

I'm pretty sure that some of my puzzlement is because you see something obvious in the difference between Internet Radio and UPnP that I don't, because I don't understand the technology. I tend to think that if the mechanisms really are that different it's always going to be hard for me to tease out what the transcode settings actually mean in every case when all are specified in one place but mean rather different things. I probably need a flow chart to work it out.

It is much simpler than you appear to be thinking.

The UPnP control point gets two stream URLs (#1 and #2) and chooses #1 unless it has a reason not to do that.

The internet radio gets one stream URL (#2) so it has to choose that URL because it doesn't know about the other one.

URL #1 plays the stream with transcoding. URL #2 plays the stream without transcoding because of the ^.

But that's not what the user guide says is it? Have I misread it? You state "Note: For a network stream whose original type is unspecified, the choice of output type is made by MinimStreamer (not the control point) when MinimServer opens the stream and discovers its type." So MinimStreamer makes the choice, and not the CP. What am I missing?

[Reg]

(04-03-2015 21:03)simoncn Wrote:  

(04-03-2015 20:20)Reg Wrote:  Been away for a day so going to give this one more try.
Still getting Mime message. Tried turning off and on the Mime type check in Bubble. Still no Music.
Cleared UPNP cache in Naim. Still no music
Unistalled MinimWatch on sitting room PC; no difference
ffmpeg is what I have in streamer
Everything else is working flawlessly as usual

Reg

When you turned off the MIME type check in BubbleUPnP, did that make the 714 error message go away?

Yes