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Denon AVR X-1000 and the Pause command
26-10-2013, 08:48
Post: #11
RE: Denon AVR X-1000 and the Pause command
(29-09-2013 13:51)simoncn Wrote:  
(29-09-2013 12:56)HCau1 Wrote:  The details on how to install the XIPH FLAC plugin for WMP and also the plug in for album artwork/metadata in WMP are listed here
http://www.hack7mc.com/2009/01/playing-f...enter.html

They are very detailed and I followed them to the letter, including resetting the WMP databases etc. For testing purposes I simply added just one folder of FLAC files. The replay of metadata was very sporadic, but here we are simply trying to find out if the Pausing of a FLAC file served from a PC to a Denon AVR would work.

The results were as follows.
The DENON AVR X1000 would pause a FLAC file when used as a player (i.e. the 2 box model), i.e. using the DENON's UI to select and play a file.

When used in a three box model with both the Denon Android Control app (V1.6) it would not pause but would stop. On checking the DENON On screen status, something weird happened, it bounced all the way back to the top level - general high level menu "Network". However on pressing the STOP command in the app the "system" would resume playback of the file but from the beginning of the file. In other words It was not PLay/Pause, but a sort of hybrid Play/Stop-Restart.

I also used Bubble UPnP but here it would simply respond with ACTION Failed Code 501.

Hopefully you have enough information to repeat my experiments, I'll keep an eye on this thread to see if you need more information.

Thanks very much for all this very detailed information.

Just for info, I bought a Synology DS213j, FLAC files pause perfectly withe DENON AVR-X1000 and with the DENON remote app.
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26-10-2013, 10:48
Post: #12
RE: Denon AVR X-1000 and the Pause command
(26-10-2013 08:48)HCau1 Wrote:  Just for info, I bought a Synology DS213j, FLAC files pause perfectly withe DENON AVR-X1000 and with the DENON remote app.

This problem with pausing should be fixed in the next release of MinimServer.
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02-07-2015, 09:46
Post: #13
Denon/Marantz players and the Pause command
(26-10-2013 10:48)simoncn Wrote:  
(26-10-2013 08:48)HCau1 Wrote:  Just for info, I bought a Synology DS213j, FLAC files pause perfectly withe DENON AVR-X1000 and with the DENON remote app.

This problem with pausing should be fixed in the next release of MinimServer.
Simon - many thanks for a good piece of software. I plan to use MinimServer, but I am experiencing the Denon pause problem documented some time ago in this post. Or something similar.

When I attempt to use the pause control on either of my control points, it works a few times (possibly a fixed number of times). Once it fails, it will no longer work until I use the next/previous control, which seems to reset something. When it fails, the control point displays the "play" button, as if it thinks that the pause command has been received by the renderer and the renderer is in a paused state, although it actually continues playing. BubbleUPnP app gives error messages. This behaviour does not occur with AssetUPnP server, but I prefer to use MS (and donate!). I can also avoid the pause problem by cutting out the Bubble server and controlling the renderer directly, but I want to retain multiple control points.

Setup:
Windows 7 Pro/Minimserver/Minimstreamer (0.8/0.5.12) with transcoding of all sources to wav to achieve gapless playback.
Windows 7/Kinsky (4.3.14) control point.
Android/BubbleUPnP (2.3.7.2) control point (paid).
Windows 7 Pro/BubbleUPnPServer to achieve shared playlist management.
Denon DNP F109 renderer.

All suggestions welcome.
Marmite

Server :: RaspberryPi3B+>Minimserver 2
Control : Android>BubbleUPnP / W10>Upplay / W10>Kazoo / iPhone>Kazoo
Renderer: BubbleUPnP Server>Cambridge Audio CXN V2
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02-07-2015, 10:28
Post: #14
RE: Denon AVR X-1000 and the Pause command
(02-07-2015 09:46)MarmiteSandwich Wrote:  Simon - many thanks for a good piece of software. I plan to use MinimServer, but I am experiencing the Denon pause problem documented some time ago in this post. Or something similar.

When I attempt to use the pause control on either of my control points, it works a few times (possibly a fixed number of times). Once it fails, it will no longer work until I use the next/previous control, which seems to reset something. When it fails, the control point displays the "play" button, as if it thinks that the pause command has been received by the renderer and the renderer is in a paused state, although it actually continues playing. BubbleUPnP app gives error messages. This behaviour does not occur with AssetUPnP server, but I prefer to use MS (and donate!). I can also avoid the pause problem by cutting out the Bubble server and controlling the renderer directly, but I want to retain multiple control points.

Setup:
Windows 7 Pro/Minimserver/Minimstreamer (0.8/0.5.12) with transcoding of all sources to wav to achieve gapless playback.
Windows 7/Kinsky (4.3.14) control point.
Android/BubbleUPnP (2.3.7.2) control point (paid).
Windows 7 Pro/BubbleUPnPServer to achieve shared playlist management.
Denon DNP F109 renderer.

All suggestions welcome.
Marmite

Please produce a debug log by doing the following:

1) In the log window, set the logging level to Debug
2) Leave the log window open
3) Press pause and resume a few times at 15-second intervals until the problem occurs for the first time
4) Note the exact time (by looking at the timestamps in the log window) that you pressed pause and the renderer didn't pause
5) In the log window, click 'Save as' to save a log file
6) Zip the log file and attach it to a post here, together with the time that you noted in step 4
7) In the log window, set the logging level back to Info

I will look at the log and let you know what I find.
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02-07-2015, 11:15 (This post was last modified: 02-07-2015 11:29 by MarmiteSandwich.)
Post: #15
RE: Denon AVR X-1000 and the Pause command
Quote:Please produce a debug log by doing the following:

1) In the log window, set the logging level to Debug
2) Leave the log window open
3) Press pause and resume a few times at 15-second intervals until the problem occurs for the first time
4) Note the exact time (by looking at the timestamps in the log window) that you pressed pause and the renderer didn't pause
5) In the log window, click 'Save as' to save a log file
6) Zip the log file and attach it to a post here, together with the time that you noted in step 4
7) In the log window, set the logging level back to Info

I will look at the log and let you know what I find.

OK, done. This test confirmed something I noticed before - it seems to be always the first pause on the second track which fails. It was at 10.57.11 (or maybe 10.57.32 - the log panel updates in bursts, so it was difficult to know where it was when the fail happened). I stopped the play within a few seconds of the failed pause, which is where the log ends.
Marmite


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.zip  minim_log2.zip (Size: 5.26 KB / Downloads: 1)

Server :: RaspberryPi3B+>Minimserver 2
Control : Android>BubbleUPnP / W10>Upplay / W10>Kazoo / iPhone>Kazoo
Renderer: BubbleUPnP Server>Cambridge Audio CXN V2
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02-07-2015, 16:49
Post: #16
RE: Denon AVR X-1000 and the Pause command
(02-07-2015 11:15)MarmiteSandwich Wrote:  OK, done. This test confirmed something I noticed before - it seems to be always the first pause on the second track which fails. It was at 10.57.11 (or maybe 10.57.32 - the log panel updates in bursts, so it was difficult to know where it was when the fail happened). I stopped the play within a few seconds of the failed pause, which is where the log ends.
Marmite

Thanks for this. The log shows that MinimServer started sending the stream at 10:57:11 and ended it at 10:57:32 when the renderer closed the connection before streaming had completed.

For the previous track, MinimServer started sending the stream at 10:55:48 and ended it at 10:56:52 when streaming completed normally and the renderer closed the connection.

The pause and resume actions don't show in the log because they are implemented at a lower level by pausing and resuming the TCP streaming connection.

With your setup, the Denon receives the stream from BubbleUPnP Server and BubbleUPnP Server receives the stream from MinimServer. Given that nothing unusual is happening with MinimServer, it seems that the problem is related to BubbleUPnP Server not implementing pause and resume correctly in some cases. I suggest you contact the author of BubbleUPnP Server and see if he has any insights into the possible cause of the problem.
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02-07-2015, 17:40
Post: #17
RE: Denon AVR X-1000 and the Pause command
(02-07-2015 16:49)simoncn Wrote:  [quote='MarmiteSandwich' pid='16907' dateline='1435832115']

Thanks for this. The log shows that MinimServer started sending the stream at 10:57:11 and ended it at 10:57:32 when the renderer closed the connection before streaming had completed.

For the previous track, MinimServer started sending the stream at 10:55:48 and ended it at 10:56:52 when streaming completed normally and the renderer closed the connection.

The pause and resume actions don't show in the log because they are implemented at a lower level by pausing and resuming the TCP streaming connection.

With your setup, the Denon receives the stream from BubbleUPnP Server and BubbleUPnP Server receives the stream from MinimServer. Given that nothing unusual is happening with MinimServer, it seems that the problem is related to BubbleUPnP Server not implementing pause and resume correctly in some cases. I suggest you contact the author of BubbleUPnP Server and see if he has any insights into the possible cause of the problem.

OK, thanks. I'll take it up there again, although I have already tried once.
Marmite.

Server :: RaspberryPi3B+>Minimserver 2
Control : Android>BubbleUPnP / W10>Upplay / W10>Kazoo / iPhone>Kazoo
Renderer: BubbleUPnP Server>Cambridge Audio CXN V2
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02-07-2015, 18:39
Post: #18
RE: Denon AVR X-1000 and the Pause command
Marmite,

I too have a DNP-F109 using a similar streaming setup, though all my music files used for it with MinimServer are FLAC (so supported by the Denon for gapless) and don't need to transcode to WAV. I've never had the pause/resume problem you've mentioned with the BubbleUPnP Server providing the OpenHome playlist support and using the BubbleUPnP Android app as an OpenHome control point, though I don't use Kinsky as I've found it quite buggy in other ways.

The times that I do find odd things happening is if I have more than one control point looking at the same renderer and accidently select the original UPnP renderer rather than the OpenHome emulated one provided by the BubbleUPnP Server. This is surprisingly easy to do when using a control point that supports both types of renderer, such as the BubbleUPnP app and even Kinsky.

Since you are using the DNP-F109 in 'OpenHome mode', you could try using the Windows version of Kazoo (which is OpenHome only) instead of Kinsky and seeing if that makes a difference. It seems that Linn are actively supporting the newer Kazoo and not the older Kinsky.

John
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03-07-2015, 13:06 (This post was last modified: 03-07-2015 13:08 by MarmiteSandwich.)
Post: #19
RE: Denon AVR X-1000 and the Pause command
(02-07-2015 18:39)Cebolla Wrote:  Marmite,

I too have a DNP-F109 using a similar streaming setup, though all my music files used for it with MinimServer are FLAC (so supported by the Denon for gapless) and don't need to transcode to WAV. I've never had the pause/resume problem you've mentioned with the BubbleUPnP Server providing the OpenHome playlist support and using the BubbleUPnP Android app as an OpenHome control point, though I don't use Kinsky as I've found it quite buggy in other ways.

I have found that streaming transcoded wav to the Denon via BubbleUPnP works with pause control using the AssetUPnP server, or if I disable gapless playback. Or if I play direct to the Denon, without using BubbleUPnP Server as a proxy. It seems to be just the combination of Bubble server, Minimserver transcoded to wav, and gapless which causes trouble. So I am a bit stuck between Denon, Minimserver and Bubble as to whose software is misbehaving. I have been using the Android Bubble app as control point mainly, which seems the most stable controller, and I agree Kinsky is a bit flaky. Will switch to Kazoo, although I don't like the now-playing UI so much.

Quote:The times that I do find odd things happening is if I have more than one control point looking at the same renderer and accidently select the original UPnP renderer rather than the OpenHome emulated one provided by the BubbleUPnP Server. This is surprisingly easy to do when using a control point that supports both types of renderer, such as the BubbleUPnP app and even Kinsky.

Agreed. It doesn't help that the Android Bubble app ignores the unique ID that you carefully gave to your OpenHome version of the renderer. Consequently having 2 instances of BubbleUPnP running on different PCs isn't too clever. ;-)

Quote:Since you are using the DNP-F109 in 'OpenHome mode', you could try using the Windows version of Kazoo (which is OpenHome only) instead of Kinsky and seeing if that makes a difference. It seems that Linn are actively supporting the newer Kazoo and not the older Kinsky.

John
Have subscribed as a beta tester.
Marmite

Server :: RaspberryPi3B+>Minimserver 2
Control : Android>BubbleUPnP / W10>Upplay / W10>Kazoo / iPhone>Kazoo
Renderer: BubbleUPnP Server>Cambridge Audio CXN V2
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04-07-2015, 09:00
Post: #20
RE: Denon AVR X-1000 and the Pause command
(03-07-2015 13:06)MarmiteSandwich Wrote:  It seems to be just the combination of Bubble server, Minimserver transcoded to wav, and gapless which causes trouble.

What happens if you play native WAV files without transcoding? You can try this by using dBpoweramp to do offline FLAC to WAV conversion on some test files.
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