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Denon AVR X-1000 and the Pause command
23-09-2013, 18:59
Post: #1
Denon AVR X-1000 and the Pause command
I have a Denon AVR-X1000 working well with Minimserver for MP3 and FLAC files. One last thing to sort out. The Denon pause command doesn't seem to work. For the (custom) tags to work perfectly it is necessary to transcode FLAC to WAV.
I can stop the WAV playback, I can even time seek backwards and forwards but I cannot pause playback. This seems to affect both MP3's and FLAC/WAV. I contacted Denon and they said (after some deliberation) it was a server problem, strikes me as strange but after some prodding, they indicated that AssetUPnP could pause (sort of ). I checked but then the format was transcoded to LPCM (the official DLNA minimum audio format).
In the end the Denon solution was to use WMP and a FLAC plugin from XIPH.org. and it worked ! so FLAC files can be paused via a network with Denon, however that was a very complicated and messy solution and needless to say none of the Minimserver functionality we all like so much.
Is there any way to adapt Minimserver so that the Denon Pause function can work (sorry for the long post, but this has been going on a while with Denon).
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23-09-2013, 19:11
Post: #2
RE: Denon AVR X-1000 and the Pause command
(23-09-2013 18:59)HCau1 Wrote:  I have a Denon AVR-X1000 working well with Minimserver for MP3 and FLAC files. One last thing to sort out. The Denon pause command doesn't seem to work. For the (custom) tags to work perfectly it is necessary to transcode FLAC to WAV.
I can stop the WAV playback, I can even time seek backwards and forwards but I cannot pause playback. This seems to affect both MP3's and FLAC/WAV. I contacted Denon and they said (after some deliberation) it was a server problem, strikes me as strange but after some prodding, they indicated that AssetUPnP could pause (sort of ). I checked but then the format was transcoded to LPCM (the official DLNA minimum audio format).
In the end the Denon solution was to use WMP and a FLAC plugin from XIPH.org. and it worked ! so FLAC files can be paused via a network with Denon, however that was a very complicated and messy solution and needless to say none of the Minimserver functionality we all like so much.
Is there any way to adapt Minimserver so that the Denon Pause function can work (sorry for the long post, but this has been going on a while with Denon).

I was also in contact with the Denon support about a similar issue. With the Denon DNP F109 it is possible to pause MP3 files, bot not FLAC or WAV. Referring to the Denon support, this is due to a myterious DLNA pause flag which has to be set by the server. MinimServer does not yet provide this pasue flag. Unfortunately, the Denon support is not willing to give technical details about this pause flag.
However, it is a good idea to raise complaints about this issues with the Denon support. The more users do this, the higher is the probability they will do something about this.
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23-09-2013, 21:40
Post: #3
RE: Denon AVR X-1000 and the Pause command
(23-09-2013 18:59)HCau1 Wrote:  I have a Denon AVR-X1000 working well with Minimserver for MP3 and FLAC files. One last thing to sort out. The Denon pause command doesn't seem to work. For the (custom) tags to work perfectly it is necessary to transcode FLAC to WAV.
I can stop the WAV playback, I can even time seek backwards and forwards but I cannot pause playback. This seems to affect both MP3's and FLAC/WAV. I contacted Denon and they said (after some deliberation) it was a server problem, strikes me as strange but after some prodding, they indicated that AssetUPnP could pause (sort of ). I checked but then the format was transcoded to LPCM (the official DLNA minimum audio format).
In the end the Denon solution was to use WMP and a FLAC plugin from XIPH.org. and it worked ! so FLAC files can be paused via a network with Denon, however that was a very complicated and messy solution and needless to say none of the Minimserver functionality we all like so much.
Is there any way to adapt Minimserver so that the Denon Pause function can work (sorry for the long post, but this has been going on a while with Denon).

Please can you provide detailed instructions for how to set up the working solution based on WMP and the XIPH.org FLAC plugin. When I have these instructions, I will attempt to set this up and see if I can identify the mysterious DLNA pause flag.

MinimServer doesn't currently support LPCM transcoding. Adding this is on my "to do" list, but I can't give any estimate for when this might happen.
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23-09-2013, 22:12 (This post was last modified: 23-09-2013 22:13 by bubbleguuum.)
Post: #4
RE: Denon AVR X-1000 and the Pause command
I think the flag in question is a flag in the DLNA.ORG_FLAGS value, in the protocolInfo.

Twonky set this value to 01700000000000000000000000000000 and WMP to 01500000000000000000000000000000

What they have in common is the "connectionStallingSupported" bit set which I suppose may have something to do with pausing.

recently I've fixed a pause not working bug on a renderer (not Denon, but Marantz, close enough in my shit list) by adding the Twonky's value.

What's even more supid is that these renderers use the DLNA specific flags for non DLNA codecs (WAV, FLAC).

@simon: see there for info on these flags: https://github.com/4thline/cling/blob/ma...Flags.java
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23-09-2013, 22:21
Post: #5
RE: Denon AVR X-1000 and the Pause command
(23-09-2013 22:12)bubbleguuum Wrote:  I think the flag in question is a flag in the DLNA.ORG_FLAGS value, in the protocolInfo.

Twonky set this value to 01700000000000000000000000000000 and WMP to 01500000000000000000000000000000

What they have in common is the "connectionStallingSupported" bit set which I suppose may have something to do with pausing.

I have verified that pausing does not work with Twonky (the latest release) nor with servers proxified by BubbleUPnP Server. But it does work for example with the Synology media server.
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23-09-2013, 22:25
Post: #6
RE: Denon AVR X-1000 and the Pause command
(23-09-2013 22:12)bubbleguuum Wrote:  I think the flag in question is a flag in the DLNA.ORG_FLAGS value, in the protocolInfo.

Twonky set this value to 01700000000000000000000000000000 and WMP to 01500000000000000000000000000000

What they have in common is the "connectionStallingSupported" bit set which I suppose may have something to do with pausing.

recently I've fixed a pause not working bug on a renderer (not Denon, but Marantz, close enough in my shit list) by adding the Twonky's value.

What's even more supid is that these renderers use the DLNA specific flags for non DLNA codecs (WAV, FLAC).

@simon: see there for info on these flags: https://github.com/4thline/cling/blob/ma...Flags.java

Thanks for this pointer.

If I am reading the bit strings correctly, 01700000000000000000000000000000 has connectionStallingSupported set to 1 and 01500000000000000000000000000000 has connectionStallingSupported set to 0. If pausing is working with the latter value, this suggests that one of the other flags is making the vital difference.
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23-09-2013, 22:51
Post: #7
RE: Denon AVR X-1000 and the Pause command
(23-09-2013 22:21)winxi Wrote:  I have verified that pausing does not work with Twonky (the latest release) nor with servers proxified by BubbleUPnP Server. But it does work for example with the Synology media server.

Can you run Kinsky on Windows and use right-click/Details/Copy to clipboard to capture the DIDL-Lite XML for a FLAC track served by the Synology media server and a FLAC track served by Twonky, and post the two XML files here?
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24-09-2013, 10:18
Post: #8
RE: Denon AVR X-1000 and the Pause command
(23-09-2013 22:25)simoncn Wrote:  If I am reading the bit strings correctly, 01700000000000000000000000000000 has connectionStallingSupported set to 1 and 01500000000000000000000000000000 has connectionStallingSupported set to 0. If pausing is working with the latter value, this suggests that one of the other flags is making the vital difference.

Correct.
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29-09-2013, 12:56
Post: #9
RE: Denon AVR X-1000 and the Pause command
(23-09-2013 21:40)simoncn Wrote:  
(23-09-2013 18:59)HCau1 Wrote:  I have a Denon AVR-X1000 working well with Minimserver for MP3 and FLAC files. One last thing to sort out. The Denon pause command doesn't seem to work. For the (custom) tags to work perfectly it is necessary to transcode FLAC to WAV.
I can stop the WAV playback, I can even time seek backwards and forwards but I cannot pause playback. This seems to affect both MP3's and FLAC/WAV. I contacted Denon and they said (after some deliberation) it was a server problem, strikes me as strange but after some prodding, they indicated that AssetUPnP could pause (sort of ). I checked but then the format was transcoded to LPCM (the official DLNA minimum audio format).
In the end the Denon solution was to use WMP and a FLAC plugin from XIPH.org. and it worked ! so FLAC files can be paused via a network with Denon, however that was a very complicated and messy solution and needless to say none of the Minimserver functionality we all like so much.
Is there any way to adapt Minimserver so that the Denon Pause function can work (sorry for the long post, but this has been going on a while with Denon).

Please can you provide detailed instructions for how to set up the working solution based on WMP and the XIPH.org FLAC plugin. When I have these instructions, I will attempt to set this up and see if I can identify the mysterious DLNA pause flag.

MinimServer doesn't currently support LPCM transcoding. Adding this is on my "to do" list, but I can't give any estimate for when this might happen.

The details on how to install the XIPH FLAC plugin for WMP and also the plug in for album artwork/metadata in WMP are listed here
http://www.hack7mc.com/2009/01/playing-f...enter.html

They are very detailed and I followed them to the letter, including resetting the WMP databases etc. For testing purposes I simply added just one folder of FLAC files. The replay of metadata was very sporadic, but here we are simply trying to find out if the Pausing of a FLAC file served from a PC to a Denon AVR would work.

The results were as follows.
The DENON AVR X1000 would pause a FLAC file when used as a player (i.e. the 2 box model), i.e. using the DENON's UI to select and play a file.

When used in a three box model with both the Denon Android Control app (V1.6) it would not pause but would stop. On checking the DENON On screen status, something weird happened, it bounced all the way back to the top level - general high level menu "Network". However on pressing the STOP command in the app the "system" would resume playback of the file but from the beginning of the file. In other words It was not PLay/Pause, but a sort of hybrid Play/Stop-Restart.

I also used Bubble UPnP but here it would simply respond with ACTION Failed Code 501.

Hopefully you have enough information to repeat my experiments, I'll keep an eye on this thread to see if you need more information.
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29-09-2013, 13:51
Post: #10
RE: Denon AVR X-1000 and the Pause command
(29-09-2013 12:56)HCau1 Wrote:  The details on how to install the XIPH FLAC plugin for WMP and also the plug in for album artwork/metadata in WMP are listed here
http://www.hack7mc.com/2009/01/playing-f...enter.html

They are very detailed and I followed them to the letter, including resetting the WMP databases etc. For testing purposes I simply added just one folder of FLAC files. The replay of metadata was very sporadic, but here we are simply trying to find out if the Pausing of a FLAC file served from a PC to a Denon AVR would work.

The results were as follows.
The DENON AVR X1000 would pause a FLAC file when used as a player (i.e. the 2 box model), i.e. using the DENON's UI to select and play a file.

When used in a three box model with both the Denon Android Control app (V1.6) it would not pause but would stop. On checking the DENON On screen status, something weird happened, it bounced all the way back to the top level - general high level menu "Network". However on pressing the STOP command in the app the "system" would resume playback of the file but from the beginning of the file. In other words It was not PLay/Pause, but a sort of hybrid Play/Stop-Restart.

I also used Bubble UPnP but here it would simply respond with ACTION Failed Code 501.

Hopefully you have enough information to repeat my experiments, I'll keep an eye on this thread to see if you need more information.

Thanks very much for all this very detailed information.
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