The '<n> albums' sort order (again)

[DavidHB]

This is less of a feature request than a question as to how much of what I want MinimServer can, or will in future be able to, provide. The starting point is Simon's most interesting post #2 in this thread, and the first question is therefore how close is he to implementing the proposed features described therein? The concepts he described make a great deal of sense to me, and I'd like to express support for and encouragement of his plans as he described them.

My experiments with networked music so far indicate that, while the various indexes will all be useful on occasion, the view I would most often like to work with is one derived from the way I arrange my CDs on their shelves. The first categorisation in my (mainly classical) collection is by broad genre (classical, jazz, folk, pop etc.). Within that, the classical albums are ordered by composer surname and album title or contents, and the remaining genres are ordered by artist and album. Classical recitals and compilations are ordered separately. From looking at other people's record and CD collections, I'd guess that schemes of this kind are quite widely used.

It seems to me that Simon's proposed features would probably take care of what for me would be the default Genre-Composer-Album sort order. I'd hope that MinimServer would expect composer tag data to be ordered naturally ('Edward Elgar', not 'Elgar, Edward'), as that is how the information is usually delivered by online tagging databases. MinimServer would then have its rules for defining the sort order, apart from the inevitable exceptions ('Beethoven, Ludwig van' versus 'Vaughan Williams, Ralph' etc.). It seems fair to assume that, if MinimServer has done the grunt work, users should handle the exceptions.

In the thread referred to above, I think that the idea was that, if data is present in a ComposerSort tag (or field, if you prefer MP3Tag terminology), this data, as is, would become the sort data; otherwise, MinimServer would derive the sort data using the sort value of the Composer tag (the discussion was about Artist tags, but I assume that Composer could be treated similarly).

Am I correct in thinking that if/when Simon's proposed features are implemented, MinimServer will be able to do everything that I have described so far?

The next issue is what to do for genres other than classical, where the sort order should be Genre-AlbumArtist-Album. Simon has, if I recall correctly, set his face firmly against the use of conditionals in the creation of MinimServer indexes, and, as I want to host the whole of the server side operation on my NAS, I am not fond of the idea of running multiple instances of MinimServer. The only way round the problem I see at present is to copy the AlbumArtist data to Composer (and, if appropriate, with format changes to ComposerSort). It's a kludge that some people would not like, but with fewer than 100 albums in my collection affected in this way (in many of which the Album Artist is actually the composer), I can live with the compromise. The batch copying and formatting processes are quick and easy in MP3Tag (I've already tested the concept), so implementation is not a problem.

If I have understood things correctly, it all gets more difficult with alphabetical groupings, because the first term of my sort order is Genre, and there are far too few of those, and far too many entries within each, for alphabetical groupings to work. Would it be possible, at least for [album], to have an option to make the second rather than the first term of the sort order the point at which the grouping is made? The alphabetical list in my album sort order could then display as:

Classical A
...
Classical Z
Folk A
...
Folk Z
Jazz A
...
Jazz Z
and so on.

For me (and I hope for others too), this a neat and orderly way to look at the collection as whole; it makes it rather like browsing the actual library shelves ...

Thanks again to Simon for a splendid piece of software. I've now been using it extensively for 10 days, and I haven't broken it yet, which is something of a record for me. With MinimServer, I am now confident that my network music infrastructure is sufficiently robust to justify the purchase of an expensive renderer/player to get the best out of the system.

David

[simoncn]

(07-09-2013 23:10)DavidHB Wrote:  This is less of a feature request than a question as to how much of what I want MinimServer can, or will in future be able to, provide.

I should be able to answer the "can" questions. For the "will be able to" questions, my crystal ball is somewhat fuzzy and I can only indicate what might possibly happen, not what will happen. Also, I find that the design of a feature normally changes as part of the experience of implementing that feature and seeing how it feels to use it, so any descriptions of yet-to-be-implemented features are subject to change.

Quote:The starting point is Simon's most interesting post #2 in this thread, and the first question is therefore how close is he to implementing the proposed features described therein? The concepts he described make a great deal of sense to me, and I'd like to express support for and encouragement of his plans as he described them.

These features aren't as close as I hoped when I wrote that post. Sometimes things take longer to implement than expected, and I've learned that it's best not to predict timescales for future enhancements because my predictions would inevitably be over-optimistic.

Quote:My experiments with networked music so far indicate that, while the various indexes will all be useful on occasion, the view I would most often like to work with is one derived from the way I arrange my CDs on their shelves. The first categorisation in my (mainly classical) collection is by broad genre (classical, jazz, folk, pop etc.). Within that, the classical albums are ordered by composer surname and album title or contents, and the remaining genres are ordered by artist and album. Classical recitals and compilations are ordered separately. From looking at other people's record and CD collections, I'd guess that schemes of this kind are quite widely used.

With MinimServer, this would be supported by using a multistep index selection of Genre first, then Composer or AlbumArtist, then the desired album. This doesn't match your suggested "bookshelf" model of a single totally ordered sequence of albums.

Quote:It seems to me that Simon's proposed features would probably take care of what for me would be the default Genre-Composer-Album sort order. I'd hope that MinimServer would expect composer tag data to be ordered naturally ('Edward Elgar', not 'Elgar, Edward'), as that is how the information is usually delivered by online tagging databases. MinimServer would then have its rules for defining the sort order, apart from the inevitable exceptions ('Beethoven, Ludwig van' versus 'Vaughan Williams, Ralph' etc.). It seems fair to assume that, if MinimServer has done the grunt work, users should handle the exceptions.

My thoughts at present are that MinimServer should derive the display name from the sort name, not the other way round. This is because there's no possibility of ambiguity problems when converting

Vaughan Williams, Ralph => Ralph Vaughan Williams
Beethoven, Ludwig van => Ludwig van Beethoven

but the reverse can't be done reliably in any simple way.

Quote:
In the thread referred to above, I think that the idea was that, if data is present in a ComposerSort tag (or field, if you prefer MP3Tag terminology), this data, as is, would become the sort data; otherwise, MinimServer would derive the sort data using the sort value of the Composer tag (the discussion was about Artist tags, but I assume that Composer could be treated similarly).

Am I correct in thinking that if/when Simon's proposed features are implemented, MinimServer will be able to do everything that I have described so far?

I'm hoping to support what you've described, subject to my comments above.

Quote:The next issue is what to do for genres other than classical, where the sort order should be Genre-AlbumArtist-Album. Simon has, if I recall correctly, set his face firmly against the use of conditionals in the creation of MinimServer indexes, and, as I want to host the whole of the server side operation on my NAS, I am not fond of the idea of running multiple instances of MinimServer. The only way round the problem I see at present is to copy the AlbumArtist data to Composer (and, if appropriate, with format changes to ComposerSort). It's a kludge that some people would not like, but with fewer than 100 albums in my collection affected in this way (in many of which the Album Artist is actually the composer), I can live with the compromise. The batch copying and formatting processes are quick and easy in MP3Tag (I've already tested the concept), so implementation is not a problem.

Using the multistep index selection approach I have described, this wouldn't present any difficulty because you would select nonclassical albums using Genre > AlbumArtist > album instead of Genre > Composer > album.

Quote:If I have understood things correctly, it all gets more difficult with alphabetical groupings, because the first term of my sort order is Genre, and there are far too few of those, and far too many entries within each, for alphabetical groupings to work. Would it be possible, at least for [album], to have an option to make the second rather than the first term of the sort order the point at which the grouping is made? The alphabetical list in my album sort order could then display as:

Classical A
...
Classical Z
Folk A
...
Folk Z
Jazz A
...
Jazz Z
and so on.

MinimServer allows you to control alphabetical grouping by the tag name and also by the minimum number of list entries to be grouped alphabetically. This would allow you to have the Genre index ungrouped and have the AlbumArtist and Composer indexes grouped.

Quote:For me (and I hope for others too), this a neat and orderly way to look at the collection as whole; it makes it rather like browsing the actual library shelves ...

My suggestions above aren't exactly what you have requested. If you want to reproduce the "bookshelf" view exactly, you could do this by browsing using [folder view] and arranging your folder structure and folder names to give you the exact ordering and hierarchy that you want.

Quote:Thanks again to Simon for a splendid piece of software. I've now been using it extensively for 10 days, and I haven't broken it yet, which is something of a record for me. With MinimServer, I am now confident that my network music infrastructure is sufficiently robust to justify the purchase of an expensive renderer/player to get the best out of the system.

David

I'm pleased to hear that MinimServer is performing well for you, and I hope you will be able to use it to achieve something close to your ideal browsing structure.

[DavidHB]

Simon, thank you for a characteristically complete, helpful and courteous reply. I would have replied sooner, but I was laying the network cable to feed the renderer I hope to buy tomorrow. (And also reading the 35 page thread on the Linn forum about whether network cables make a difference to the sound quality. Entertainingly weird, but pretty irrelevant to me, as most of my network cable is buried in the walls. I eagerly await the discussion as to whether or not a Netgear router produces better sound quality than the standard BT box ...)

(08-09-2013 17:41)simoncn Wrote:  I find that the design of a feature normally changes as part of the experience of implementing that feature and seeing how it feels to use it, so any descriptions of yet-to-be-implemented features are subject to change.

Yes, that's been my experience as a programmer, too. Second thoughts are often better.

Quote:Sometimes things take longer to implement than expected, and I've learned that it's best not to predict timescales for future enhancements because my predictions would inevitably be over-optimistic

Fully understood. The software is already so good that I can be patient.

Quote:With MinimServer, this would be supported by using a multistep index selection of Genre first, then Composer or AlbumArtist, then the desired album. This doesn't match your suggested "bookshelf" model of a single totally ordered sequence of albums.

Actually, I don't think that we're that far apart. When some bit of domestic turbulence causes me to take down all my CDs and store them out of harm's way, they always seem to end up in random order. The initial sort is then into two 'globs' - classical and non-classical. Each is then sub-sorted separately; composer-album for the classical and genre-artist-album for the rest. Those pesky classical recitals and compilations are extracted to form a glob of their own, sorted by artist for the recitals and album for the compilations. This is a multi-step process.

Quote:My thoughts at present are that MinimServer should derive the display name from the sort name, not the other way round. This is because there's no possibility of ambiguity problems when converting

Vaughan Williams, Ralph => Ralph Vaughan Williams
Beethoven, Ludwig van => Ludwig van Beethoven

but the reverse can't be done reliably in any simple way.

Well, we are fully agreed on the nature of the problem, but we are approaching it from opposite ends of the telescope. You quite reasonably want to feed MinimServer data it will not choke on. I am concerned that the data in online databases in is not in that form, so will have to be separately formatted for use with MinimServer; I know that you too want to impose on users as little as possible. For myself, I believe that, using MP3Tag, the workload required to make composer and artist data MinimServer-friendly is entirely manageable. Users who wish to steer clear of filter instructions and regular expressions may think differently. In the end, it's your call.

Quote:I'm hoping to support what you've described, subject to my comments above.

This is good to know.

Quote:Using the multistep index selection approach I have described, this wouldn't present any difficulty because you would select nonclassical albums using Genre > AlbumArtist > album instead of Genre > Composer > album.

Indeed. That works well now in the individual tag-based indexes. In my original post, I did not perhaps make it clear enough that all my suggestions related only to the '<n> albums' index. As I think about it further (a useful product of friendly dialogue), the need for some of what I suggested will depend to some degree on the behaviour of the Control Point.

UPnPlay on Andoid, for example, always shows the '<n> albums' index on startup, and this (if I use software with this behaviour as standard) makes it useful to tune '<n> albums' as closely to my needs as possible. By contrast, foo_upnp on foobar2000 shows no index by default, and its '<n> albums' index is just an alphabetical list of album titles. After tomorrow, my primary Control Point may be Kinsky or Bubble DS. It won't be n-Stream, because I don't do iOS.

Quote:MinimServer allows you to control alphabetical grouping by the tag name and also by the minimum number of list entries to be grouped alphabetically. This would allow you to have the Genre index ungrouped and have the AlbumArtist and Composer indexes grouped.

Indeed; this is what I have. So I suppose I am asking (1) that these options could be applied (if need be, optionally) to the album.Sort option, and (2) that, in album.Sort, the values of any ungrouped tag(s) that are sorted before the grouped tag appear in the '<n> albums' list, as shown in the example in my last post.

Quote:My suggestions above aren't exactly what you have requested. If you want to reproduce the "bookshelf" view exactly, you could do this by browsing using [folder view] and arranging your folder structure and folder names to give you the exact ordering and hierarchy that you want.

I think that your suggestions are pretty close to what I need. And I entirely agree that a properly constructed folder tree is a powerful organisation and search tool. People often seem to think that indexing replaces the folder structure; in my experience (particularly with digital photography, where the number of files can be quite vast), both are essential. With this thought in mind, before starting with network based music, I cleared out my music folder completely, and started again with a folder tree that, as nearly as possible, follows the 'CD shelf' paradigm. Depending on Control Point behaviour (see above), I'd ideally like the '<n> albums' list to do the same, particularly for those occasions when I'm in 'bear with small brain' mode and need to fall back to the more familiar neural path. But, as said, I can wait.

Thank you again.

David

[simoncn]

Thanks for your thoughtful reply. I've made some brief comments inline below.

(09-09-2013 16:35)DavidHB Wrote:  Well, we are fully agreed on the nature of the problem, but we are approaching it from opposite ends of the telescope. You quite reasonably want to feed MinimServer data it will not choke on. I am concerned that the data in online databases in is not in that form, so will have to be separately formatted for use with MinimServer; I know that you too want to impose on users as little as possible. For myself, I believe that, using MP3Tag, the workload required to make composer and artist data MinimServer-friendly is entirely manageable. Users who wish to steer clear of filter instructions and regular expressions may think differently. In the end, it's your call.

I agree that doing this from my end of the telescope would require an extra tagging step for users who want to sort by last name. Ideally, there would be a tool of some kind (not part of MinimServer) that would take care of this tagging step in a user-friendly and intuitive fashion. What I've proposed should be regarded as a simple starting point for an initial implementation of custom sorting, not a final and complete solution.

Quote:Indeed. That works well now in the individual tag-based indexes. In my original post, I did not perhaps make it clear enough that all my suggestions related only to the '<n> albums' index.

The <n> albums list is not an index (in terms of how MinimServer treats indexes), but is a flat list of the albums with no further index selections possible. The only customizations possible are sort order (using a fixed list of tags) and alphabetical grouping (by the first letter of the album title). You can get a "normal" Album index by adding Album to indexTags, but there's little reason to do this.

I think you could achieve your desired sort order by setting Album.sortTags to something like:

Genre, Composer, AlbumArtist, Album

but this wouldn't be compatible with alphabetical grouping, as you have said. The code that implements alphabetical grouping is quite complex and is used for all alphabeticallly grouped lists, and I wouldn't want to attempt to tweak this code to do something different for the special case of "<n> albums".

Quote:UPnPlay on Andoid, for example, always shows the '<n> albums' index on startup, and this (if I use software with this behaviour as standard) makes it useful to tune '<n> albums' as closely to my needs as possible.

I tried this, and I get the normal top-level menu on startup. Have you done some configuration of UPnPlay to make it show the "<n> albums" list instead?

Quote:Indeed; this is what I have. So I suppose I am asking (1) that these options could be applied (if need be, optionally) to the album.Sort option, and (2) that, in album.Sort, the values of any ungrouped tag(s) that are sorted before the grouped tag appear in the '<n> albums' list, as shown in the example in my last post.

I think this would be a step too far in complexity for the "<n> albums" list, which is intended to be a simple list. The MinimServer indexes are intended to be the place where more complex structuring and selection can be done.

[DavidHB]

Thank you for another quick and helpful reply. After tomorrow, perhaps I will have something to distract me from bothering you again in short order ...

(09-09-2013 19:46)simoncn Wrote:  I agree that doing this from my end of the telescope would require an extra tagging step for users who want to sort by last name. Ideally, there would be a tool of some kind (not part of MinimServer) that would take care of this tagging step in a user-friendly and intuitive fashion. What I've proposed should be regarded as a simple starting point for an initial implementation of custom sorting, not a final and complete solution.

That said, it seems to me to be a pretty good starting point. Unless and until your user-friendly tool becomes available, I suggest that the excellent MinimServer documentation should contain a step by step guide to the tagging step. I'd be happy to provide input on MP3Tag (on which I am no expert, but which I have made work for me). Actually my major criticism of MP3Tag is that the documentation does not include step-by-step guides on performing particular tasks. It is hardly fair to expect new users to read through a welter of forum posts just to get into the program. By contrast, the MinimServer documentation provides all the necessary hand-holding for new users without treating them as idiots.

Quote:The <n> albums list is not an index (in terms of how MinimServer treats indexes), but is a flat list of the albums with no further index selections possible. The only customizations possible are sort order (using a fixed list of tags) and alphabetical grouping (by the first letter of the album title) ... The code that implements alphabetical grouping is quite complex and is used for all alphabetically grouped lists, and I wouldn't want to attempt to tweak this code to do something different for the special case of "<n> albums".

Ah. This is the sort of guidance that only the programmer can provide. I clearly need to find the best way of accessing my music, and maybe the folder view is the most useful default for me. This is what is so good about MinimServer providing options.

A sorted list of albums per se is of limited use to me, because I like to normalise my data as far as possible. My preferred title is "Symphonies 1 and 2" rather than "Beethoven: Symphonies 1 and 2". As previously noted, how well this will work will depend on Control Point behaviour. I'm not likely to add to my 80 album development library until I am clearer about this.

Quote:I think you could achieve your desired sort order by setting Album.sortTags to something like:

Genre, Composer, AlbumArtist, Album

but this wouldn't be compatible with alphabetical grouping, as you have said.

Including AlbumArtist in Album.SortTags generates an error and a red mimim icon. Is AlbumArtist not a permitted field in Album.sortTags? EDIT: I figured it out; I'd forgotten to put AlbumArtist in IndexTags as well.

Quote:

DavidHB Wrote:UPnPlay on Anrdoid, for example, always shows the '<n> albums' index on startup, and this (if I use software with this behaviour as standard) makes it useful to tune '<n> albums' as closely to my needs as possible.

I tried this, and I get the normal top-level menu on startup. Have you done some configuration of UPnPlay to make it show the "<n> albums" list instead?

Sorry, sloppy description on my part. Both Control Points (foobar2000/foo_upnp and UPnPlay) first present a list of sources, which in my case include my DNLA server (ReadyDNLA) and MinimServer; foobar2000 offers a tree listing and UPnP give a text list with icons. It's what happens when you select MinimServer that I misleadingly described as 'startup'. UPnPlay goes straight to the '<n> albums' list if you've started it from scratch; if it's running in the background, it remembers the track it's pointing to. I tend to quit UPnPlay when I've finished using it, as I'm not specially fond of Android's propensity to hold on to large numbers of applications in the background.

Quote:

DavidHB Wrote:Indeed; this is what I have. So I suppose I am asking (1) that these options could be applied (if need be, optionally) to the album.Sort option, and (2) that, in album.Sort, the values of any ungrouped tag(s) that are sorted before the grouped tag appear in the '<n> albums' list, as shown in the example in my last post.

I think this would be a step too far in complexity for the "<n> albums" list, which is intended to be a simple list. The MinimServer indexes are intended to be the place where more complex structuring and selection can be done.

This is a perhaps pity from my point of view, but you know best. It's not as if there are no other options, and it may be that it's my mindset rather than MinimServer that needs to change. I clearly need to experiment a bit more. Thank you for explaining things and giving me some clues as to what I might try.

David

[simoncn]

(09-09-2013 23:28)DavidHB Wrote:  That said, it seems to me to be a pretty good starting point. Unless and until your user-friendly tool becomes available, I suggest that the excellent MinimServer documentation should contain a step by step guide to the tagging step. I'd be happy to provide input on MP3Tag (on which I am no expert, but which I have made work for me). Actually my major criticism of MP3Tag is that the documentation does not include step-by-step guides on performing particular tasks. It is hardly fair to expect new users to read through a welter of forum posts just to get into the program. By contrast, the MinimServer documentation provides all the necessary hand-holding for new users without treating them as idiots.

I think the MinimServer User guide is long enough already without including instructions on how to use other programs such as Mp3tag. There is nothing to stop others from producing this tutorial information and making it available.

Quote:Including AlbumArtist in Album.SortTags generates an error and a red mimim icon. Is AlbumArtist not a permitted field in Album.sortTags?

You need to add AlbumArtist to either itemTags or indexTags. Without this, MinimServer will not read it from your files.

Quote:It's what happens when you select MinimServer that I misleadingly described as 'startup'. UPnPlay goes straight to the '<n> albums' list if you've started it from scratch; if it's running in the background, it remembers the track it's pointing to. I tend to quit UPnPlay when I've finished using it, as I'm not specially fond of Android's propensity to hold on to large numbers of applications in the background.

When I start UPnPlay from scratch and select MinimServer, I get the normal top-level MinimServer menu. Perhaps something has changed in the version of UPnPlay you are using. The version I currently have installed is 0.0.75.

[stampie]

It's worth bearing in mind the role that the 'control point' has in the overall chain. Some (most?) of them implement their own sort rules, so functions like IgnoreTHE are ignored, and 'The' carries on being used to sort lists within the control point software.

The example that I am using (Naim n-Stream) falls into this category. I can enable an upnp compatibility mode which would overcome this issue, but I lose a lot of the control point's own functionality by doing this.

I only mention this to put things in a wider perspective.

Keep up the good work Simon.

Looking forward to the next release
Nick

[DavidHB]

(10-09-2013 12:45)stampie Wrote:  It's worth bearing in mind the role that the 'control point' has in the overall chain. Some (most?) of them implement their own sort rules.

I fully agree with your main point, and you will have seen my ideas developing in this thread, as I have come to realise its importance

I'm not knowledgeable enough to know whether 'some' or 'most' is more correct. In the few weeks that I have been looking in detail at network-based audio systems, I have come to realise that, with a device- and format-independent standard like UPnP AV, there is a strong incentive on providers of Servers, Control Points and renderers to try to control the user experience by modifying in some way the inputs their products receive. This will be particularly true in the case of Control Points, because they provide the user interface, and all the more true when the Control Point software is branded by a high-end streamer manufacturer.

In these circumstances, it is quite surprising that Linn seem to have taken something of an 'open systems' approach in the development of Kinsky. I am looking forward to learning Kinsky properly (see my next post, which will follow in a bit), but experience with it so far suggests that it needs a server like MinimServer to enable it to do what I want it to do. That's actually a good thing; when a component provider respects both the established standards and the integrity of the system as a whole, users are (in my view) more likely to get what they really want, even if they have to work a bit for it.

David

[simoncn]

(11-09-2013 21:30)DavidHB Wrote:  

(10-09-2013 12:45)stampie Wrote:  It's worth bearing in mind the role that the 'control point' has in the overall chain. Some (most?) of them implement their own sort rules.

I fully agree with your main point, and you will have seen my ideas developing in this thread, as I have come to realise its importance

I'm not knowledgeable enough to know whether 'some' or 'most' is more correct.

In my experience, it's some but not most.

Quote:In the few weeks that I have been looking in detail at network-based audio systems, I have come to realise that, with a device- and format-independent standard like UPnP AV, there is a strong incentive on providers of Servers, Control Points and renderers to try to control the user experience by modifying in some way the inputs their products receive. This will be particularly true in the case of Control Points, because they provide the user interface, and all the more true when the Control Point software is branded by a high-end streamer manufacturer.

In these circumstances, it is quite surprising that Linn seem to have taken something of an 'open systems' approach in the development of Kinsky. I am looking forward to learning Kinsky properly (see my next post, which will follow in a bit), but experience with it so far suggests that it needs a server like MinimServer to enable it to do what I want it to do. That's actually a good thing; when a component provider respects both the established standards and the integrity of the system as a whole, users are (in my view) more likely to get what they really want, even if they have to work a bit for it.

David

I think Linn's approach to this has been exemplary. They have implemented a number of (very useful) extensions to the standards in their products, and they have also been careful to ensure their products support the "plain vanilla" version of the standards as well. Also, they have published the specifications for their extensions so that other manufacturers can interoperate with these extensions or implement them.

I personally find the combination of Kinsky and MinimServer to be very satisfactory. Another good control point (for Android only) is BubbleUPnP/BubbleDS.

[DavidHB]

This is the post I promised two posts back. I wrote it, then managed to close the browser before I posted it ...

Yesterday's return ferry trip and longish drive to the dealer resulted in an order for an Akurate DSM. That is relevant in the present context because I got to try Kinsky on my Nexus 10, and learned enough to take the view that I shall probably get on with it quite well. At the dealer's, Kinsky was paired with Asset UPnP, which didn't seem as responsive as MinimServer (the back end hardware was not visible, so I don't know how the storage was managed; it might have been a ripping NAS, in which case Asset, which only runs on Windows, would have been on a different machine).

(09-09-2013 23:47)simoncn Wrote:  I think the MinimServer User guide is long enough already without including instructions on how to use other programs such as Mp3tag. There is nothing to stop others from producing this tutorial information and making it available.

Fair enough. Perhaps we users should do more to write up 'tips and tricks' for others. Topics of particular use to new users could perhaps be made 'sticky' at the top of the forum list; new material could be added to these 'stickies' from time to time to form a user compendium. I'm happy to contribute what I've learned so far, but it would be useful to have some guidance on what you consider best practice. My own feeling is that users often find quite detailed step by step guidance to be the best way of getting into something new.

Quote:You need to add AlbumArtist to either itemTags or indexTags. Without this, MinimServer will not read it from your files.

Sorry, I didn't get the correction to my post done in time ...

Quote:When I start UPnPlay from scratch and select MinimServer, I get the normal top-level MinimServer menu. Perhaps something has changed in the version of UPnPlay you are using. The version I currently have installed is 0.0.75.

My version of UPnPlay (on the Nexus 10) has just updated itself to 0.0.82, and now, when it is opened, it just goes back to whatever it was doing when it was closed. This is what Android apps typically do, and I can't find a way of changing the behaviour, not that I actually want to.


With the purchase of the DSM, I have committed myself to using MinimServer for (hopefully) the foreseeable future. It therefore seems only fair to make a donation, and this I have done.

David