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Restriction of BBC Radio HLS/DASH to authorised third parties
06-10-2023, 18:11
Post: #31
RE: Restriction of BBC Radio HLS/DASH to authorised third parties
Thanks for this suggestion. I made a similar suggestion to the BBC and they ignored it, quoting the paragraph about software solutions and individual users and with no explanation of why an approach that doesn't expose BBC stream URLs to end users would not be acceptable.

Naim has been approved by the BBC to have access to the BBC streams and this is why you are able to play the new streams on your Naim device. There are some posts on the Naim forums confirming this this (see for example this link from post #3 of this thread).
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07-10-2023, 12:37
Post: #32
RE: Restriction of BBC Radio HLS/DASH to authorised third parties
(06-10-2023 18:11)simoncn Wrote:  Thanks for this suggestion. I made a similar suggestion to the BBC and they ignored it, quoting the paragraph about software solutions and individual users and with no explanation of why an approach that doesn't expose BBC stream URLs to end users would not be acceptable.

How frustrating. Would it help if Minimstreamer users did either of the following (politely of course):

* sign a petition urging the BBC to collaborate in good faith with 3rd parties like MinimServer (Simon) et al and publish a detailed implementation spec so 3rd parties can provide services. Seek support for the issue online, on social media, print and broadcast media.
* file complaints with the BBC
* file complaints with OfCom
* write to the Culture Sec
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07-10-2023, 17:27
Post: #33
RE: Restriction of BBC Radio HLS/DASH to authorised third parties
The other day, I followed the link Simon posted. The page was for third parties and had a link for listeners : Changes to live BBC radio streams.

I followed that link which basically did not say it was good for listeners but good for the BBC. It asked was the page helpful. I pressed no which then opened a box for comments so I said as a license payer I was unhappy that they were excluding MinimServer

I'm not sure this will have any effect at all but gave me a chance to complain :-)
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07-10-2023, 21:15
Post: #34
RE: Restriction of BBC Radio HLS/DASH to authorised third parties
At present, my focus is on completing and releasing a MinimStreamer update that will provide access to the new BBC streams after the current streams stop working.

When this update is available to users and confirmed to be working, I intend to prepare and submit a complaint to the BBC and if necessary to Ofcom about this change, as I believe it contravenes some of the terms of the BBC Distribution Policy. I don't want to discuss details of this complaint in a public forum.

I doubt that a petition would carry much weight with the BBC as the number of MinimStreamer users who listen to BBC streams and might sign such a petition would be very small from the BBC's perspective. I think the complaint route is more likely to succeed if a case can be made that the BBC is violating its own Distribution Policy.
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08-10-2023, 18:00
Post: #35
RE: Restriction of BBC Radio HLS/DASH to authorised third parties
(07-10-2023 21:15)simoncn Wrote:  At present, my focus is on completing and releasing a MinimStreamer update that will provide access to the new BBC streams after the current streams stop working.

When this update is available to users and confirmed to be working, I intend to prepare and submit a complaint to the BBC and if necessary to Ofcom about this change, as I believe it contravenes some of the terms of the BBC Distribution Policy. I don't want to discuss details of this complaint in a public forum.

I doubt that a petition would carry much weight with the BBC as the number of MinimStreamer users who listen to BBC streams and might sign such a petition would be very small from the BBC's perspective. I think the complaint route is more likely to succeed if a case can be made that the BBC is violating its own Distribution Policy.


Right ho.
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11-10-2023, 09:55 (This post was last modified: 11-10-2023 09:56 by MDF.)
Post: #36
RE: Restriction of BBC Radio HLS/DASH to authorised third parties
Thankyou for all your efforts on this Simon. It is very much appreciated.
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11-10-2023, 10:21
Post: #37
RE: Restriction of BBC Radio HLS/DASH to authorised third parties
Just catching up with all this, I stopped receiving notifications of new posts for some reason. Others have suggested anything I might have, so this is just to add my thanks for everyone's efforts in finding a solution or workaround, particularly Simon of course - much appreciated, thank you.
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13-10-2023, 11:16
Post: #38
RE: Restriction of BBC Radio HLS/DASH to authorised third parties
Thanks for all your efforts Simon. The Beeb is sadly capable of behaving very strangely at times ( as anyone who followed the treatment of the world-class BBC Singers this year will appreciate).
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19-10-2023, 17:08 (This post was last modified: 20-10-2023 16:44 by simoncn.)
Post: #39
RE: Restriction of BBC Radio HLS/DASH to authorised third parties
A test build of MinimStreamer is now available that provides access to the new authenticated BBC streams via a third party approved by the BBC. I have tested this with all the BBC streams (62 in total) from both a UK IP address and a non-UK IP address. In the UK, all stations are streamed at 320 kbps except for BBC World Service which is streamed at 96 kbps. Outside the UK, all stations are streamed at 96 kbps except for BBC Five Sports Extra which is not available outside the UK.

To use the new authenticated streams, you don't need to make any changes to your .m3u radio playlists in your MinimServer library. You just need to install the test build and add a new option 'bbcstreams=auth' to the stream.options property. To revert to using the current public streams with URLs in .m3u playlists, either set 'bbcstreams=url' or remove the bbcstreams option. Having a property setting to change this makes it easy to compare the current and new streams. The current public streams are still the default because it isn't clear when the BBC will disable these streams.

There should be no difference between the current and new streams except that in some cases the new streams might be streamed at a higher bitrate. Ths is because MinimStreamer automatically chooses the highest available bitrate for the new streams. This bitrate is 320 kbps in the UK and 96 kbps outside the UK except for BBC World Service which is 96 kbps everywhere.

To enable you to see which stream is playing (public or authenticated) as well as the bitrate and stream type (DASH or HLS), the test build writes a message to the MinimServer log when you play any BBC stream. This is useful if you are switching back and forth between the current public streams and the new authenticated streams for testing purposes.

To install the test build, you will need to use the Packages tab of the MinimServer or MinimWatch properties dialog. It isn't possible at present to do this from the MinimServer configuration web page.

1) In the 'Other package' field of the Packages tab, type: minimstreamer-2.0.11.3
2) Click Install and follow the prompts to confirm installation
3) When the package has been installed successfully, click the Relaunch button

Please post feedback or problem reports on this thread only so that all information is available in one place.
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20-10-2023, 11:39
Post: #40
RE: Restriction of BBC Radio HLS/DASH to authorised third parties
Many thanks Simon, all installed and working without a hitch so far for all the stations I use (1-4, 4Extra, 6, World). Switched back and forth between auth and url a couple of times - all as expected from your description, including log messages (mostly the messages seem to appear twice for each change of station, occasionally only once).
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