Is UPnP a rubish protocol ???

[lyapounov]

OK, this title is provocative.

However: I have constant issues with UPnP; unless it is me.

In my home network, I have everything under a neat subnetwork, including synology with minimserver, of course, and a Linn equipment, so openHome compatible.

Every so and so, roughly every hour if not every half hour, the Lumin app has lost the player. I need to stop the app by swipping up, and to restart the app, and then, magic, the player is back again.

Sometimes (every two months) even this is not sufficient. I need to stop and start my router to get the player visible again. Sometimes, it is minimserver which disappear. Sometimes, even both minimserver and the player.

Now, I am currently nomadic. So I bought a sonos loudspeaker, and I access my music remotly using ds-audio app, or sonos app with qobuz integrated. Well, even with the sonos app, suddenly the loudspeaker has gone away. After three attempts to access to it again, Sonos tells you "just reboot your router". O well...

I have never experienced this sort of issue when I deal with my network; all protocol such as DHCP, SFTP, SSH, etc. work seemlessly, TCP/UDP work well; no such issue.

So is it me who carries bad luck, is it me who is incompetent, or is this that UPnP is just a rubish protocol ?

[simbun]

What you're describing is the discovery process, and that depends primarily on your network setup, but also your device and app.

Apart from a problem I had last week where I couldn't see one MinimServer instance from one phone that was on 2.4G, but I could from one that was on 5G (I was setting up a new wireless speaker at the time with the phone on 2.4G so that could have had some affect), I don't think I've had a single problem and I've been running it for over a decade.

I have a Ubiquiti router and access point plus a single Netgear 24 port switch, with MinimServer coming off the switch and have had no problems at all. I have a number of google speakers on a separate vlan with inter-vlan mdns repeating and BubbleUPnP server proxying them as OpenHome renderers and that's also rock solid, apart from when they update, then they seem to change their UDN which means they lose their configuration in BubbleUPnP server.

From what I've seen on these forums, most of the problems seem to originate from ios devices, and the lumin and naim apps.

When your Lumin app can't discover the player have you tried from another app (preferably from another device to rule out the device), or looked at the network traffic to see if it's still broadcasting? Restarting/Rebooting is often the easier "solution" but it's only temporary.

[simoncn]

If a device drops off after approximately 30 minutes, this is because UPnP "alive" messages are being blocked by your network. This is very commonly caused by IGMP snooping being enabled but not configured correctly. It is quite difficult to configure IGMP snooping correctly, so the best solution for most people is to disable IGMP snooping. This means you need a router that can do this, either by default or with a configuration option.

[lyapounov]

(09-03-2022 10:50)simbun Wrote:  When your Lumin app can't discover the player have you tried from another app (preferably from another device to rule out the device), or looked at the network traffic to see if it's still broadcasting? Restarting/Rebooting is often the easier "solution" but it's only temporary.

I use also the Linn app, the new one as well as Kazoo. The result is highly variable; sometimes the Linn app sees the player, sometimes it does not

[lyapounov]

(09-03-2022 11:49)simoncn Wrote:  If a device drops off after approximately 30 minutes, this is because UPnP "alive" messages are being blocked by your network. This is very commonly caused by IGMP snooping being enabled but not configured correctly. It is quite difficult to configure IGMP snooping correctly, so the best solution for most people is to disable IGMP snooping. This means you need a router that can do this, either by default or with a configuration option.

My router is a D-Link Archer C1200, then a few Deco Mesh but all in passthru mode

The only related parameters I can change are:
IGMP Proxy: not enabled
IGMP Version: V2 or V3
IPTV/VLAN: IPTV not enabled
Then IPTV mode with a list of providers. But It is not enabled

Does not says anything about IGMP Snooping, but again IGMP Proxy is not enabled ?

Thhx !

[simoncn]

IGMP proxy is different from IGMP snooping. A web search suggests that the C1200 supports IGMP snooping (see for example this page). Also, as there is a choice between IGMP v2 and v3, it is likely that the router is using IGMP snooping. Can you try a different router that has a configuration setting to disable IGMP snooping?

[lyapounov]

(09-03-2022 15:05)simoncn Wrote:  IGMP proxy is different from IGMP snooping. A web search suggests that the C1200 supports IGMP snooping (see for example this page). Also, as there is a choice between IGMP v2 and v3, it is likely that the router is using IGMP snooping. Can you try a different router that has a configuration setting to disable IGMP snooping?

IGMP snooping is nowhere a parameter in my router. It may be enabled, but I have no way to change this.

I'll try another router when I am back home, in a few days.

By the way: just the fact that a well-known problem - conflict between IMGP snooping & UPnP discovery - has found no solution, does show, to my eyes, that UPnP is not a reliable protocole.

But there is no other open alternative, if I am right...

[lyapounov]

(09-03-2022 15:05)simoncn Wrote:  IGMP proxy is different from IGMP snooping. A web search suggests that the C1200 supports IGMP snooping (see for example this page). Also, as there is a choice between IGMP v2 and v3, it is likely that the router is using IGMP snooping. Can you try a different router that has a configuration setting to disable IGMP snooping?

It happened that I had a spare Asus router which does offer IGMP snooping management.

I confirm that there is no more of such issue.

Before this I tried with a switch which manages IGMP snooping between my synology and my renderer but that did not work.

Thx Simon

[lyapounov]

Well, bad luck.

The issue of loosing the renderer came back. So what is different:


1° I have a brand new iPad

2° I changed my switch which was able to manage IGMP snooping to a standard CISCO switch

But the IGMP snooping is still disabled

So boring....

[simoncn]

In a situation like this, it is often helpful to change (back) one thing at a time until you find which change is making the difference.