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Behavior of Artist tag
21-06-2012, 08:10
Post: #11
RE: Behavior of Artist tag
(20-06-2012 20:07)simoncn Wrote:  I think I can explain what's happening. It's a combination of a bug, a feature, and the way you've done your tagging.
Big Grin

Quote:To see a listing of Artist tag values with nothing else mixed in, you need to put All Artists in indexTags. This will give you a All Artists index selection, which will show every individual artist that appears in an Artist tag. If you select one of these artists, you'll see all the tracks that contain an Artist tag for that artist (and maybe other Artist tags as well).
Perfect, that is what I was looking for Smile

Quote:The Artist index contains all the (possibly mixed-in) track artist values. So, when I've fixed the bug, you'll see:

Ton Koopman
Ton Koopman, Amsterdam Baroque Orchestra
Ton Koopman, Tini Mathot

You should see Tini Mathot (on her own) in the All Artists list. She'll only be in the Artist list if she appears on her own for a track. If she always appears with other people, her name will be combined with those other people in the Artist list.

I hope this helps! Does this approach (when the bug is fixed) seem reasonable?
It definitely helps: I've added the All Artists tag to the indexTags as that gives me what I want, and I removed Artist as I don't see myself using that, even with the bug fix.

There might still be an issue with the combination in the Artist list though: in my example I get (among other permutations) "Ton Koopman, Tini Mathot". I assume in the order the Artist tags are present in the file?
The problem is that that order is more or less random. To expand the example a bit, I have concertos for 2 organs by Soler, with Ton and Tini playing, tagged "Ton Koopman\\Tini Mathot". This gives me the listing "Ton Koopman, Tini Mathot" in Artist. I also have Die Kunst der Fuge in a version for 2 cembali, again with Ton and Tini playing. This one shows up under "Tini Mathor, Ton Koopman" because I tagged it "Tini Mathot\\Ton Koopman".

I almost find myself arguing that you'd need to generate an entry for "Ton Koopman, Tini Mathot" which links to both the Soler and the Bach compositions, and an entry for "Tini Mathot, Ton Koopman", which also links to both the Soler and the Bach compositions.

I say "almost", because that could create a nice explosion of the number of entries in the Artist list. For example, I have 2 or 3 performances of Bach's concerto für 4 Klaviere with different performers...

The Artist list does provide an overview of the "constellations" that perform music. If you get the urge to hear something performed by Perahaia and the Royal Concertgebouw Orchestra under the direction of Haitink you'd be able to see if that particular combination exists in your collection. BUT, you might miss anything performed by Bilson & Perahia and the Royal Concertgebouw Orchestra under the direction of Haitink.

It's probably just not how my mind works: I'd select Perahia from the All Artists, then go down the Conductor route, followed by the Orchestra. That way I don't need to think about possible permutations or variations myself Tongue

At the moment, using the All Artists list, I'd rate MinimServer a 10 out of 10. But that's only because I've gotten used to the power and convenience it offers; a few months back I'd have given it a 12 out of 10 Tongue

If I was Linn I'd give you a call instead of trying to develop my own server Angel

JW
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21-06-2012, 10:29
Post: #12
RE: Behavior of Artist tag
(21-06-2012 08:10)rb73 Wrote:  It definitely helps: I've added the All Artists tag to the indexTags as that gives me what I want, and I removed Artist as I don't see myself using that, even with the bug fix.

There might still be an issue with the combination in the Artist list though: in my example I get (among other permutations) "Ton Koopman, Tini Mathot". I assume in the order the Artist tags are present in the file?
The problem is that that order is more or less random. To expand the example a bit, I have concertos for 2 organs by Soler, with Ton and Tini playing, tagged "Ton Koopman\\Tini Mathot". This gives me the listing "Ton Koopman, Tini Mathot" in Artist. I also have Die Kunst der Fuge in a version for 2 cembali, again with Ton and Tini playing. This one shows up under "Tini Mathor, Ton Koopman" because I tagged it "Tini Mathot\\Ton Koopman".

There's no perfect answer to this. I could reorder the artists when doing the mixing in (sort by alphabetical order?), but I don't think this is a good idea. In many cases the order of the artists is significant, and people wouldn't be pleased to see it changed.

Quote:I almost find myself arguing that you'd need to generate an entry for "Ton Koopman, Tini Mathot" which links to both the Soler and the Bach compositions, and an entry for "Tini Mathot, Ton Koopman", which also links to both the Soler and the Bach compositions.

I say "almost", because that could create a nice explosion of the number of entries in the Artist list. For example, I have 2 or 3 performances of Bach's concerto für 4 Klaviere with different performers...

This is the purpose of the "All Artists" index. It gives you all these extra links.

Quote:The Artist list does provide an overview of the "constellations" that perform music. If you get the urge to hear something performed by Perahaia and the Royal Concertgebouw Orchestra under the direction of Haitink you'd be able to see if that particular combination exists in your collection. BUT, you might miss anything performed by Bilson & Perahia and the Royal Concertgebouw Orchestra under the direction of Haitink.

It's probably just not how my mind works: I'd select Perahia from the All Artists, then go down the Conductor route, followed by the Orchestra. That way I don't need to think about possible permutations or variations myself Tongue

I agree that the tree navigation approach is the right way to do this. With MinimServer you have the added benefit that you can do this search as All Artists -> Conductor -> Orchestra or you can change the order to Conductor -> Orchestra -> All Artists instead.

The mixed-in Artist is what appears in the control point when you play the track or view it in a playlist. It's not really suitable for searching classical music. I think it's a lot more useful for people with pop music collections.

Quote:At the moment, using the All Artists list, I'd rate MinimServer a 10 out of 10. But that's only because I've gotten used to the power and convenience it offers; a few months back I'd have given it a 12 out of 10 Tongue

If I was Linn I'd give you a call instead of trying to develop my own server Angel

JW

I'm very sorry to hear that MinimServer has dropped two points on the JW scale. Sad At this rate, soon you'll only be giving it 8. Confused
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21-06-2012, 12:53
Post: #13
RE: Behavior of Artist tag
Mixing conductor and orchestra in is certainly helpful for the "Now playing" info, IMHO.

Quote:I'm very sorry to hear that MinimServer has dropped two points on the JW scale. Sad At this rate, soon you'll only be giving it 8. Confused

Just to clarify: I meant to say that you raised the bar for UPnP servers. With the introduction of the flexible browsing concept my view of what a "10" means had to be readjusted. I didn't mean to imply that MinimServer is going backwards, on the contrary.

JW
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21-06-2012, 22:36
Post: #14
RE: Behavior of Artist tag
(21-06-2012 12:53)rb73 Wrote:  Just to clarify: I meant to say that you raised the bar for UPnP servers. With the introduction of the flexible browsing concept my view of what a "10" means had to be readjusted. I didn't mean to imply that MinimServer is going backwards, on the contrary.

JW

OK, I understand. Smile I'll have to think about what else I can add in the future to raise the bar even higher and get back to a 12 again. Smile
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