Post Reply 
 
Thread Rating:
  • 1 Vote(s) - 5 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Please help me start up with tags
06-08-2021, 18:24 (This post was last modified: 06-08-2021 18:24 by MiniMe.)
Post: #51
RE: Please help me start up with tags
(06-08-2021 18:10)simbun Wrote:  The behaviour I saw was that if there's more than one artist then AlbumArtist is null, or [untagged]

I've to test created an album with multiple TrackArtists in the album and left AlbumArtist blank. Refreshed Minimserver.I checked with Linn Kazoo as that takes directly Minimserver servings.

In the view under Artists you can find each of the differing TrackArtists for the same album, each with their own assigned tracks via the tagging.
I double checked against Artists who have tag "Unknown". Thereunder only the tracks appear who have neither a TrackArtist nor an AlbumArtist assigned.

This confirms that tagValue = AlbumArtist.default={Artist} nicely fills the blanks.
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
06-08-2021, 18:53
Post: #52
RE: Please help me start up with tags
(06-08-2021 18:24)MiniMe Wrote:  
(06-08-2021 18:10)simbun Wrote:  The behaviour I saw was that if there's more than one artist then AlbumArtist is null, or [untagged]

I've to test created an album with multiple TrackArtists in the album and left AlbumArtist blank. Refreshed Minimserver.I checked with Linn Kazoo as that takes directly Minimserver servings.

In the view under Artists you can find each of the differing TrackArtists for the same album, each with their own assigned tracks via the tagging.
I double checked against Artists who have tag "Unknown". Thereunder only the tracks appear who have neither a TrackArtist nor an AlbumArtist assigned.

This confirms that tagValue = AlbumArtist.default={Artist} nicely fills the blanks.

You're looking in the wrong place to test if the AlbumArtist transform (the default) is correct. Add AlbumArtist to indexTags, or check your album sorts.

From the user guide:
The Artist index provides main artist information. It contains AlbumArtist tag values for albums that have this tag and Artist tag values otherwise.
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
06-08-2021, 19:32 (This post was last modified: 06-08-2021 19:36 by MiniMe.)
Post: #53
RE: Please help me start up with tags
you're right.

if you add albumartists to the indextags and then look into what is served under album artist you see indeed at the complete bottom of the list under albumartist [unknown] all tracks for albums which have differing track artists but no album artist mentioned. the suggestion from mp3tag site is indicating that some control points handle the variance, and some don't. I think that is proved.
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
06-08-2021, 20:27 (This post was last modified: 06-08-2021 20:28 by simbun.)
Post: #54
RE: Please help me start up with tags
(06-08-2021 19:32)MiniMe Wrote:  the suggestion from mp3tag site is indicating that some control points handle the variance, and some don't. I think that is proved.

Everything from:
[n] albums
[n] items
all the indexes as specified in indextags
[folderview]

should come direct from MinimServer, the control point shouldn't be modifying those values at all.
You can see exactly what's sent by MinimServer by right clicking on the Minimwatch tray icon, selecting 'Show Log', and changing the Logging level to 'Debug'. You'll have to format the output as they'll be lots of it, so change it to Debug just before you're selecting an index, and make sure the index isn't already cached by the control point otherwise you'll see nothing.
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
06-08-2021, 21:01
Post: #55
RE: Please help me start up with tags
To see the XML metadata that MinimServer sends to the control point, you need to select Trace, not Debug. Because of the very large amount of output this can produce, it should be enabled only for a short time.
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
07-08-2021, 00:07 (This post was last modified: 07-08-2021 00:27 by MiniMe.)
Post: #56
RE: Please help me start up with tags
I checked (and have on purpose made some empty tags for AlbumArtists on a test Album where there are multiple TrackArtists:
if I add the index Tag for AlbumArtist via indexTags, then look in the generated list of AlbumArtists, then on the AlbumArtist list bottom end there is a category [unknown] that contains tracks for the Albums that have different TrackArtists assigned that do Not Have an AlbumArtist assigned (i.e. I found there the tracks from the test Album.
From my point of view, the [unknown] category is desired behavior from Minimserver as it indicates the [unknown] result where (more than one) AlbumArtists on the same album without a (unique) AlbumArtist. This in my point of view just proves inconsistency in the tagging.

In the [n] Albums view I see Albums correctly being sorted A-Z. This includes the test Album that is also correctly sorted by its name. The TrackArtist for albums with more than one TrackArtists indicates the TrackArtist as trackartist1, trackartist2,... for the Album. So in the Album list, albums are sorted correct.

P.S. -as it should- when for an Album with more than one TrackArtists also no AlbumArtist, a unique AlbumArtist is added in the tagging of the files, then the above can no longer be observed.
Please help remind me, what are we looking for?

P.P.S. if there are more than one TrackArtists and no AlbumArtist for an Album, then Minimserver upon refresh [info log] says that Warning: conflicting ALBUMARTIST values ignored for album (the one with the more than one Trackartist)
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
07-08-2021, 09:10 (This post was last modified: 07-08-2021 09:22 by simbun.)
Post: #57
RE: Please help me start up with tags
(06-08-2021 21:01)simoncn Wrote:  To see the XML metadata that MinimServer sends to the control point, you need to select Trace, not Debug. Because of the very large amount of output this can produce, it should be enabled only for a short time.
And I even tested it to make sure I got it right!
I can only assume that my fingers are more used to dealing with syslog so they typed the most verbose logging level available there and overrode my brain; a little worrying!

(07-08-2021 00:07)MiniMe Wrote:  Please help remind me, what are we looking for?

At various points you talked about how to deal with missing values in AlbumArtist, but it wasn't clear whether it was because the album truly didn't have one, or whether your tagging routines just hadn't filled it in.
Hopefully you now understand that applying a .default isn't going to fix lazy tagging (forgetting to fill out AlbumArtist), and the implications of using it (assigned an artist if only a single artist across the entire album or [unknown] otherwise) so at this point it's down to you.

Personally I make sure all my tags are fully populated even if that means I have duplication (AlbumArtist, AlbumArtistSort, Artist, ArtistSort all having potentially the same value), it's a small price to pay (given the size of the music file), helps with my QA routines, and means that if I want to use my music outside of MinimServer then it still works (my portable devices don't apply a similar default).

I don't have any Classical or Opera and use Musicbrainz as the source of my tagging which relies heavily on AlbumArtist from a database perspective, so I've never even considered how to deal with an album that has no AlbumArtist, if I did then that may change my mind (I might leave it blank).
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
07-08-2021, 11:05
Post: #58
RE: Please help me start up with tags
I guess I got slightly off track due to the Lumin app which presents in its own icons the AlbumArist, but I'm also sure my newness in the topic was a reason Blush Any case, I think I got the tagging now fully right, I tagged VA as AlbumArist on those albums that are compilations and all seems to work out well! I might do an update to populate the AlbumArtist in all files, but, I also believe in not duplicating data as I understood simoncn indicated this.

With Minimserver properties I am happy to confirm that I can easily adjust the listing/sorting depending on what is needed so that I can move between views without having to destroy any tags.
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
07-08-2021, 11:33
Post: #59
RE: Please help me start up with tags
It sounds like you are in a good place now.

One note of caution: if you decide to populate AlbumArtist in all files, don't just copy Artist tags to AlbumArtist. This will cause conflicts for albums with more than one Artist.
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
07-08-2021, 23:24 (This post was last modified: 07-08-2021 23:40 by MiniMe.)
Post: #60
RE: Please help me start up with tags
Thanks for all the support and advice, it's appreciated!
Meanwhile I have the full licenced version in my posession also.

Now one last question? MinimWatch on my Mac seems to "forget" the MinimServer. Behavior from the Linn Kazoo app was an indicator for this where it no longer could find the MinimServer library.

If I then Exit and reopen MinimWatch, I get a grey icon in my title bar.
However if I go to the [IP]:9790 then MinimServer status is Running and I can refresh from there.

Sometimes when I restart my network devices the Minimserver comes up again, but I wonder if it could have anything to do with BigSur compliance, or with the change to MS where I added the license number to?

Any thoughts?

edit: and few moments later everything is back online without changing or restarting anything. Strangeness. Other thought is that maybe Synology is somewhat overworked and that MS forgets to report itself via ... (the dots as for me unknown)? The network shares and the distribution of audio via Minimserver to my network player all work, control from my phone of this as well though.
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply 


Forum Jump:


User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)