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Play Native DSD to New Marantz|Denon AVR
31-12-2020, 21:43
Post: #1
Play Native DSD to New Marantz|Denon AVR
I have been racking my brain on the topic of what is possible today for streaming native DSD. This also included research in the area of "DSD via HDMI" offered by certain AVR manufacturers. I concluded that this too was complicated and was heavily dependent on the 'sending' device as well (plus USB, Coaxial, or Optical caveats). Today, I utilize a stand-alone DAC with a USB connection to my Windows PC. I would like to implement a streaming solution via a DLNA server.

I came across your invention via another forum when searching for a media server that was capable of sending native DSD stream over the network (via DLNA) to be played by an AVR. To say the least, I am encouraged. I have your media server installed and operating. I activated the Trial License. I am impressed.

The first thing I noticed was that for dsf albums, they are empty. FLAC content plays fine.

So, starts the journey...

First question, is it even possible without manipulating the native DSD signal (with an AVR)? If so, how? I understand select media servers will manipulate before sending a stream. Obviously, this is not appealing.

Thanks in advance. I look forward to ongoing forum discussions.
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01-01-2021, 15:33
Post: #2
RE: Play Native DSD to New Marantz|Denon AVR
MinimServer supports streaming DSF files (without manipulation/transcoding) to a renderer/DAC that can play this stream type. Which DAC and Windows renderer are you using?

What do you mean by DSF albums being empty? You cannot have an album that doesn't contain at least one track. Are you seeing this for an album folder in [folder view]? Have you checked the MinimServer log for error messages?
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01-01-2021, 16:53
Post: #3
RE: Play Native DSD to New Marantz|Denon AVR
Excellent News!!

Playing dsf tracks locally not a problem with a number of players - MPC, Foobar2000, and Emby Theater.

Presently, I am using Foobar2000 on my Android phone. This is the only device I have now to test DLNA besides an iPad. iPhone, or Windows laptop.
I have two servers running side by side. MiniMserver and Emby.
Choosing the Emby server I can see the dsf tracks within the albums, and play them. I AM NOT suggesting they are playing as native dsf, only that I can play them. When I choose MiniMserver I cannot not see dsf tracks within the albums.

Ultimately, I am looking for confirmation that dsf tracks play natively on new AVR model(s) from Denon or Marantz? Model numbers would be ideal.

Thanks again.
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01-01-2021, 17:50 (This post was last modified: 01-01-2021 17:51 by simoncn.)
Post: #4
RE: Play Native DSD to New Marantz|Denon AVR
I don't understand what you mean by "cannot not see dsf tracks within the albums". Do you see other tracks that are not DSF or is the whole DSF album missing? If you could post a screenshot, that would help.

Also, have you checked the MinimServer log for error messages?
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03-01-2021, 03:17
Post: #5
RE: Play Native DSD to New Marantz|Denon AVR
Please find two attachments. One screenshot is populated. This acreenshot is from the Emby server. The other blank screenshot (with album title) is from MiniMserver.

The log does not indicate any error message associated with this album only 'truncated date. .corrupted tracks...' from other albums.


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03-01-2021, 12:00
Post: #6
RE: Play Native DSD to New Marantz|Denon AVR
I tried this using foobar2000 on Android and I see the same as you. foobar2000 on Windows displays the DSF tracks, as does BubbleUPnP on Android, so this appears to be a limitation of foobar2000 on Android.

If I enable MinimStreamer transcoding from DSF to WAV, the tracks display in foobar2000 on Android. This might be what Emby is doing.

The description of foobar2000 for Android says this:
Supported audio formats: MP3, MP4, AAC, Vorbis, Opus, FLAC, WavPack, WAV, AIFF, Musepack.

In order to make this work as you want, you will need to use a different control point such as BubbleUPnP.
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04-01-2021, 04:22
Post: #7
RE: Play Native DSD to New Marantz|Denon AVR
Thanks for confirming.

Agreed. I believe that Emby is transcoding the dsf tracks to support Foobar2000 on Android. Emby does not support native play dsf tracks on Android (including Nvidia Shield TV Pro 2019). Like Foobar2000, Emby Theater (as client) will play native dsf tracks on Windows. I consider the Android option dead at this time.

Now back to my original question regarding playing native dsf tracks on recent models of Marantz|Denon AVR? Can anyone attest to this? If so, how is it accomplished?
I have read on the Emby forum that a member is seeing "mime" errors on his Marantz AVR(s). He too mentioned BubbleUPnP as a control point which seem to work. But this sounds like a work around to have the tracks play, although not native dsf?
Quite frankly, I do not understand what a product like BubbleUPnP is doing?

Thanks
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04-01-2021, 09:39
Post: #8
RE: Play Native DSD to New Marantz|Denon AVR
I looked at the first AVR on the Marantz website. From the Key Features list of the NR1711:

High-Res audio streaming for Hi-Fi enthusiasts:
Enjoy your favourite Hi-Res quality file playback with FLAC, ALAC, and WAV support up, as well as DSD 2.8/5.6MHz.

So this model supports native streaming of DSD64 and DSD128.
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06-01-2021, 01:49
Post: #9
RE: Play Native DSD to New Marantz|Denon AVR
Thanks for researching.
To confirm: this model receiver as advertised should play native .dsf tracks sent from the MiniMserver? No transcode required? No special setup on the server?

The renderer, the Marantz AVR in this case, receives the stream from the MM server and knows what to do with it? This includes not only playing the track but it will also display all album/artist/song metadata and artwork on the attached display/HDTV?

What about a control point?

So:
DSD64=2.8MHz
DSD128=5.6MHz

Very helpful! Thanks again.
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06-01-2021, 10:34
Post: #10
RE: Play Native DSD to New Marantz|Denon AVR
You will need to confirm the exact details of "support for DSD" with Marantz or a Marantz dealer for the model you are intending to purchase.

Marantz will have a control point (again, ask Marantz for details). A number of third-party control points are also available (for example, BubbleUPnP). A third-party control point should be able to play music but might not be able to control all features of the Marantz.
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