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Issue with Synology and Naim
16-04-2013, 06:48
Post: #1
Issue with Synology and Naim
Hi Simon

First, many thanks for this very nice piece of software!

I am experiencing an issue with my set-up. I have made many unsuccessful searches on the forum, apologies if this problem has already been addressed.

The 0.70 version is installed on a Synology DS213 (ARM), and I use a Naim SuperUniti as a renderer, and the iPad n-Stream application to control, and to browse my music library, made of CD's ripped to ALAC with XLD.

I can perfectly browse my library with n-stream but my problem is that no music can be played: n-stream tells me "0 track has been added", when an album or a track is selected.

Three additional clues (maybe):
- I can play music served by minimserver if I use the remote control of the SuperUniti, but the tiny green screen of this device is very frustrating compared to the iPad app...
- Everything works well with the built-in multimedia server of the Synology (but the browsing is not as good as with minimserver)
- I have experienced the same issue with Plex used as a music server, also installed on the Synology.

Sorry for that too long post. Your help would be very much appreciated!

Thanks

JD
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16-04-2013, 08:33
Post: #2
RE: Issue with Synology and Naim
(16-04-2013 06:48)zorgu Wrote:  Hi Simon

First, many thanks for this very nice piece of software!

I am experiencing an issue with my set-up. I have made many unsuccessful searches on the forum, apologies if this problem has already been addressed.

The 0.70 version is installed on a Synology DS213 (ARM), and I use a Naim SuperUniti as a renderer, and the iPad n-Stream application to control, and to browse my music library, made of CD's ripped to ALAC with XLD.

I can perfectly browse my library with n-stream but my problem is that no music can be played: n-stream tells me "0 track has been added", when an album or a track is selected.

Three additional clues (maybe):
- I can play music served by minimserver if I use the remote control of the SuperUniti, but the tiny green screen of this device is very frustrating compared to the iPad app...
- Everything works well with the built-in multimedia server of the Synology (but the browsing is not as good as with minimserver)
- I have experienced the same issue with Plex used as a music server, also installed on the Synology.

Sorry for that too long post. Your help would be very much appreciated!

Thanks

JD

I believe other people are using nStream to play music from MinimServer on Naim streamers, so I suspect this might be a network or firewall issue. Do you have a firewall activated on the DS213? If so, please try deactivating it and let me know if this improves things.
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17-04-2013, 00:12
Post: #3
RE: Issue with Synology and Naim
Thanks for the quick reply.
I have checked: no firewall is active on the NAS.
Any other idea?
JD
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17-04-2013, 09:11
Post: #4
RE: Issue with Synology and Naim
(17-04-2013 00:12)zorgu Wrote:  Thanks for the quick reply.
I have checked: no firewall is active on the NAS.
Any other idea?
JD

Please install 0.71 and try again using that. If it still doesn't work, the next step is to run a trace log to see if this provides any clues. Please do the following:

1) Start MinimServer and MinimWatch
2) In MinimWatch, select 'Show log'
3) In the log window, change the logging level to Trace
4) Leave the log window open
5) Use nStream to browse to a track, then try to play it
6) Note the name of the track that wouldn't play
7) In the log window, press 'Save as' to save a copy of the log
8) In the log window, change the logging level from Trace back to Info
9) Zip the log and attach it here, together with the name of the track that wouldn't play

Many thanks!
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17-04-2013, 11:34
Post: #5
RE: Issue with Synology and Naim
(17-04-2013 09:11)simoncn Wrote:  Please install 0.71 and try again using that. If it still doesn't work, the next step is to run a trace log to see if this provides any clues. Please do the following:

1) Start MinimServer and MinimWatch
2) In MinimWatch, select 'Show log'
3) In the log window, change the logging level to Trace
4) Leave the log window open
5) Use nStream to browse to a track, then try to play it
6) Note the name of the track that wouldn't play
7) In the log window, press 'Save as' to save a copy of the log
8) In the log window, change the logging level from Trace back to Info
9) Zip the log and attach it here, together with the name of the track that wouldn't play

Many thanks!

I will do so later today. Very impressed with your reactivity! Thanks
JD
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17-04-2013, 21:21
Post: #6
RE: Issue with Synology and Naim
Simon,

I went through all your recommended steps. I have also noticed that a setting of nStream influences a lot its behavior with MinimServer. This setting is called "UPNP Compatibility Mode".

I don't know what this parameter is supposed to do, but if I set it 'On', it works: I can stream music. The big drawback is that browsing becomes soooo sloooow and some great features of nStream are not available anymore, like managing the listing queue, access to album info,...

Again, I don't have this issue with the Syno built-in media server, no need to switch to the UPNP Compatibility Mode.

Therefore, I have attached two log files:
- without UPNP compatibility mode (unable to stream)
- with UPNP compatibility mode (streaming works)

The track is a song called "Somebody Let The Devil Out" from Popa Chubby, album name "The Good the Bad And the Chubby"

I hope this will help you solve the issue!

Thanks
JD


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17-04-2013, 23:33
Post: #7
RE: Issue with Synology and Naim
(17-04-2013 21:21)zorgu Wrote:  Simon,

I went through all your recommended steps. I have also noticed that a setting of nStream influences a lot its behavior with MinimServer. This setting is called "UPNP Compatibility Mode".

I don't know what this parameter is supposed to do, but if I set it 'On', it works: I can stream music. The big drawback is that browsing becomes soooo sloooow and some great features of nStream are not available anymore, like managing the listing queue, access to album info,...

Again, I don't have this issue with the Syno built-in media server, no need to switch to the UPNP Compatibility Mode.

Therefore, I have attached two log files:
- without UPNP compatibility mode (unable to stream)
- with UPNP compatibility mode (streaming works)

The track is a song called "Somebody Let The Devil Out" from Popa Chubby, album name "The Good the Bad And the Chubby"

I hope this will help you solve the issue!

Thanks
JD

Thanks very much for doing this. The logs show that without UPnP compatibility mode, the browsing response is sent correctly by MinimServer, but for some reason nStream doesn't send a GET request to play the track. With UPnP compatibility mode, MinimServer sends an identical browsing response, and nStream does send a GET request to play the track.

I found a number of discussions on the Naim forum about problems with various media servers that go away when UPnP compatibility mode is selected, but there were no clues as to a solution. I didn't see a reference to people being completely unable to play any tracks.

The evidence suggests that the Synology media server is sending something different than what MinimServer and Plex are sending, and this "something different" is able to make nStream work without UPnP compatibility mode.

A network packet trace would reveal what this difference is, but I don't know an easy way to produce this trace when the packets are being exchanged between an iPad and a Synology NAS. If either end were a PC or Mac, it would be easy to do this using Wireshark.

Are you able to try any other media servers or any other control points? For example, could you install Serviio on the Mac to see if that works? If it does, you could use Wireshark on the Mac to do a packet trace.
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18-04-2013, 09:32
Post: #8
RE: Issue with Synology and Naim
I have Kinsky installed on the Mac, and it works with both MinimServer and the Synology Media Server. I can try to do what you suggest later today.

Having said that, I have also discovered that the Synology Media server has a logging service. I was wondering if you would be interrested in analysing the log generated by the same browsing / track playing than before, with of course the UPNP Compatibility setting set to "OFF" on the iPad.

What do you think?

JD
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18-04-2013, 09:59
Post: #9
RE: Issue with Synology and Naim
(18-04-2013 09:32)zorgu Wrote:  I have Kinsky installed on the Mac, and it works with both MinimServer and the Synology Media Server. I can try to do what you suggest later today.

Having said that, I have also discovered that the Synology Media server has a logging service. I was wondering if you would be interrested in analysing the log generated by the same browsing / track playing than before, with of course the UPNP Compatibility setting set to "OFF" on the iPad.

What do you think?

JD

If the Synology media server log includes network data, this could be very useful. Please select the the most detailed logging level available, then create the Synology log, zip it, and attach it here.

I have also just emailed Naim support to see if they can provide any information that would help me resolve this issue.
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18-04-2013, 18:54
Post: #10
RE: Issue with Synology and Naim
(18-04-2013 09:59)simoncn Wrote:  If the Synology media server log includes network data, this could be very useful. Please select the the most detailed logging level available, then create the Synology log, zip it, and attach it here.

I have also just emailed Naim support to see if they can provide any information that would help me resolve this issue.

I've had a very helpful response from Naim. The problem you are seeing is specifically related to ALAC files. They will do further investigations next week.

The Synology media server log would still be useful. It's not worth the effort of doing anything else now.
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