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Supported file types
17-10-2016, 07:28
Post: #11
RE: Supported file types
(17-10-2016 07:11)charlesbeckerson@yahoo.co.uk Wrote:  
(16-10-2016 22:43)simoncn Wrote:  
(16-10-2016 17:01)charlesbeckerson@yahoo.co.uk Wrote:  Hi. Yes I am using a USB cable. I am using the USB-DAC renderer on the Melco to play DSD files from Twonky. I am not sure either why it is not working as I would have expected it to.

I have tried this myself and it is working fine for me. The USB-DAC renderer in the Melco N1 is converting a MinimServer native DSD stream (not DoP) to native PCM (not DoP) and sending PCM output to the DAC.

If this isn't working for you, you might have the wrong transcoding settings either for MinimServer or for the Melco USB-DAC.

My Melco firmware is at the latest 3.11 level.
Please forgive my ignorance but I do not know what DoP stands for. Mt files are DSD in .dsf format. The Melco is set to convert DSD to PCM and the MinimStreamer is set to stream.transcode property of 'dsf:dopwav, dff:dopwav'.
I wondered if MinimStreamer might only work over ethernet? I haven't tried that.
I have had this email directly from a chap at Melco...

"MinimStreamer is for Ethernet steaming.
With USB we have the local internal player and the MinimStreamer DoP converter is not in the signal chain in that case.
That is why we are doing the PCM conversion within the player"


Makes little sense to me due to my lack of understanding but perhaps you can decipher it?
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17-10-2016, 10:18
Post: #12
RE: Supported file types
(17-10-2016 07:11)charlesbeckerson@yahoo.co.uk Wrote:  Please forgive my ignorance but I do not know what DoP stands for. Mt files are DSD in .dsf format. The Melco is set to convert DSD to PCM and the MinimStreamer is set to stream.transcode property of 'dsf:dopwav, dff:dopwav'.
I wondered if MinimStreamer might only work over ethernet? I haven't tried that.

Using Ethernet won't make any difference to this issue.

DoP is short for "DSD over PCM" and is a way of transmitting DSD data within a PCM stream. The DSD data is not converted to PCM but is "wrapped" within a PCM container.

By installing MinimStreamer and putting 'dsf:dopwav, dff:dopwav' in the stream.transcode property, you are sending a DoP-format stream to the USB-DAC renderer within the Melco. Unfortunately, the Melco USB-DAC doesn't recognise the stream as being DoP and is therefore not able to convert the DSD data inside the DoP stream to PCM. Instead, the Melco USB-DAC sends the DoP stream unchanged to the Moon DAC. The Moon DAC doesn't understand DoP and this is why the stream appears to play but you are not getting any sound output.

Twonky doesn't do DoP formatting. Instead, it sends a native DSD stream to the Melco USB-DAC renderer. The Melco USB-DAC recognizes the stream as native DSD and either converts it to PCM or repackages it as a DoP stream. You have selected conversion to PCM, so the Melco USB-DAC sends a converted PCM stream to the Moon DAC and this PCM stream plays successfully.

It is possible to make MinimServer act like Twonky and send a native DSD stream. To do this, you need to do one of the following:

1) Use the Packages tab of the Properties window to remove MinimStreamer, then click Relaunch. This is the simplest solution.

2) Remove the 'dsf:dopwav, dff:dopwav' setting from the stream.transcode property. This isn't as simple as it should be because MinimServer automatically applies this as the default setting every time you power on the Melco. I am going to change this but for now you can work around it by setting 'flac:wav' as the stream.transcode value.

If you do either 1) or 2) and then restart MinimServer, your DSD files should play from MinimServer to the Moon DAC.

If this doesn't work for you, please describe exactly what happens when you try to play a DSD file.
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17-10-2016, 19:30
Post: #13
RE: Supported file types
(17-10-2016 10:18)simoncn Wrote:  
(17-10-2016 07:11)charlesbeckerson@yahoo.co.uk Wrote:  Please forgive my ignorance but I do not know what DoP stands for. Mt files are DSD in .dsf format. The Melco is set to convert DSD to PCM and the MinimStreamer is set to stream.transcode property of 'dsf:dopwav, dff:dopwav'.
I wondered if MinimStreamer might only work over ethernet? I haven't tried that.

Using Ethernet won't make any difference to this issue.

DoP is short for "DSD over PCM" and is a way of transmitting DSD data within a PCM stream. The DSD data is not converted to PCM but is "wrapped" within a PCM container.

By installing MinimStreamer and putting 'dsf:dopwav, dff:dopwav' in the stream.transcode property, you are sending a DoP-format stream to the USB-DAC renderer within the Melco. Unfortunately, the Melco USB-DAC doesn't recognise the stream as being DoP and is therefore not able to convert the DSD data inside the DoP stream to PCM. Instead, the Melco USB-DAC sends the DoP stream unchanged to the Moon DAC. The Moon DAC doesn't understand DoP and this is why the stream appears to play but you are not getting any sound output.

Twonky doesn't do DoP formatting. Instead, it sends a native DSD stream to the Melco USB-DAC renderer. The Melco USB-DAC recognizes the stream as native DSD and either converts it to PCM or repackages it as a DoP stream. You have selected conversion to PCM, so the Melco USB-DAC sends a converted PCM stream to the Moon DAC and this PCM stream plays successfully.

It is possible to make MinimServer act like Twonky and send a native DSD stream. To do this, you need to do one of the following:

1) Use the Packages tab of the Properties window to remove MinimStreamer, then click Relaunch. This is the simplest solution.

2) Remove the 'dsf:dopwav, dff:dopwav' setting from the stream.transcode property. This isn't as simple as it should be because MinimServer automatically applies this as the default setting every time you power on the Melco. I am going to change this but for now you can work around it by setting 'flac:wav' as the stream.transcode value.

If you do either 1) or 2) and then restart MinimServer, your DSD files should play from MinimServer to the Moon DAC.

If this doesn't work for you, please describe exactly what happens when you try to play a DSD file.
Thanks Simon. I have tried options 1 and 2 but neither have worked. SongBook HD app reports 'Tracks of this format cannot be played'
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17-10-2016, 19:59
Post: #14
RE: Supported file types
(17-10-2016 19:30)charlesbeckerson@yahoo.co.uk Wrote:  Thanks Simon. I have tried options 1 and 2 but neither have worked. SongBook HD app reports 'Tracks of this format cannot be played'

I think I know what is causing this problem. Do you have any other control point that you can try? For example, do you have an Android device that you could use to run BubbleUPnP? If you try this, you should set the Controller option on the Melco front panel to either Hybrid mode or Mode 1 only.
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17-10-2016, 20:01
Post: #15
RE: Supported file types
(17-10-2016 19:59)simoncn Wrote:  
(17-10-2016 19:30)charlesbeckerson@yahoo.co.uk Wrote:  Thanks Simon. I have tried options 1 and 2 but neither have worked. SongBook HD app reports 'Tracks of this format cannot be played'

I think I know what is causing this problem. Do you have any other control point that you can try? For example, do you have an Android device that you could use to run BubbleUPnP? If you try this, you should set the Controller option on the Melco front panel to either Hybrid mode or Mode 1 only.

I only have an iPad. Are there any apps you suggest I try? I don't think songbook HD works with hybrid mode. I already have it set to mode 1 only...
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17-10-2016, 21:18
Post: #16
RE: Supported file types
(17-10-2016 20:01)charlesbeckerson@yahoo.co.uk Wrote:  I only have an iPad. Are there any apps you suggest I try? I don't think songbook HD works with hybrid mode. I already have it set to mode 1 only...

There aren't many iPad apps for mode 1 only. You can try the LUMIN app, which supports mode 1 only and will play your DSD files. If you are willing to change to mode 0 only, there are some other options but I haven't found any with a user interface that I think is acceptable.

Songbook HD isn't working for these files because the Melco USB-DAC player is advertising that it supports only audio/dsd and audio/x-dsd MIME types for DSD audio. The MIME type of a MinimServer native DSD stream is audio/x-dsf or audio/x-dff, so Songbook complains about this mismatch and refuses to play the file. Twonky sends native DSD streams as audio/dsd, so Songbook is happy to let the files play. In fact, the USB-DAC player is able to play an audio/x-dsf stream, so the workaround is to use a control point that either ignores the mismatch (such as LUMIN) or provides an option to ignore it (such as BubbleUPnP). If Songbook has any user settings, you could look to see whether this option is available.
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17-10-2016, 21:48 (This post was last modified: 17-10-2016 21:56 by Melco Man.)
Post: #17
RE: Supported file types
(17-10-2016 21:18)simoncn Wrote:  
(17-10-2016 20:01)charlesbeckerson@yahoo.co.uk Wrote:  I only have an iPad. Are there any apps you suggest I try? I don't think songbook HD works with hybrid mode. I already have it set to mode 1 only...

There aren't many iPad apps for mode 1 only. You can try the LUMIN app, which supports mode 1 only and will play your DSD files. If you are willing to change to mode 0 only, there are some other options but I haven't found any with a user interface that I think is acceptable.

Songbook HD isn't working for these files because the Melco USB-DAC player is advertising that it supports only audio/dsd and audio/x-dsd MIME types for DSD audio. The MIME type of a MinimServer native DSD stream is audio/x-dsf or audio/x-dff, so Songbook complains about this mismatch and refuses to play the file. Twonky sends native DSD streams as audio/dsd, so Songbook is happy to let the files play. In fact, the USB-DAC player is able to play an audio/x-dsf stream, so the workaround is to use a control point that either ignores the mismatch (such as LUMIN) or provides an option to ignore it (such as BubbleUPnP). If Songbook has any user settings, you could look to see whether this option is available.

Thank you. I've just downloaded LUMIN which seems to work although frustratingly, unless I've got it wrong, you HAVE to build playlists I.e. There isn't an option just to select an entire album...?
EDIT: Just worked out how to play an album! Seems like a great app! Think I'm sorte. Thank you so much Simon. Love my Melco and it has just improved massively with the use of MinimServer for browsing. I preferred SongBook HD to LUMIN but at least I have it all working now!
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