Language tag not indexed

[codenx]

Hi,

I'm trying to tag the songs in my library with a Language tag and have minimserver index these tags so that I can navigate using this from a Control Point. I edit the tags using JRiver, set the Language tag to English, as an example, and added Language to indexTags in minimWatch.

After a rescan, I dont see Language in the top category list in BubbleUpnp, my control point.

I tried setting this tag for both FLAC and mp3 with same result, minimserver does not see to index it. Nothing in the logs either, I just see "Language setting is enu". Not sure if it is relevant. Any suggestions how to get this working?

[simoncn]

(20-04-2015 19:23)codenx Wrote:  Hi,

I'm trying to tag the songs in my library with a Language tag and have minimserver index these tags so that I can navigate using this from a Control Point. I edit the tags using JRiver, set the Language tag to English, as an example, and added Language to indexTags in minimWatch.

After a rescan, I dont see Language in the top category list in BubbleUpnp, my control point.

I tried setting this tag for both FLAC and mp3 with same result, minimserver does not see to index it. Nothing in the logs either, I just see "Language setting is enu". Not sure if it is relevant. Any suggestions how to get this working?

If all your files have the Language tag set to English, you won't see a Language choice because no choice of Language is possible. As a test, try changing the Language tag for one file to French and doing a rescan. Does this make the Language choice appear?

The language setting in the log is the language you have configured for the computer or NAS that is running MinimServer. It isn't related to the tags in your files.

[codenx]

(21-04-2015 11:55)simoncn Wrote:  If all your files have the Language tag set to English, you won't see a Language choice because no choice of Language is possible. As a test, try changing the Language tag for one file to French and doing a rescan. Does this make the Language choice appear?

The language setting in the log is the language you have configured for the computer or NAS that is running MinimServer. It isn't related to the tags in your files.

I think I found the problem. When I looked at the mp3 file with a hex editor I see that the Language tag is not really saved in the file. This looks like a bug in JRiver. I was hoping to see the TLAN tag, but I dont see it. JRiver uses ID3v2.

As a workaround I used the Comment tag to store the language and that does get written to the mp3 file, as COMM. And when I add Comment to the indexTags I'm able to see that category in the control point.

So I guess this is not an issue with Minimserver. Are you aware of this problem with JRiver? I tried mp3tag, it does not even support editing Language tag. Thanks for looking anyways.

[simoncn]

(21-04-2015 19:44)codenx Wrote:  So I guess this is not an issue with Minimserver. Are you aware of this problem with JRiver? I tried mp3tag, it does not even support editing Language tag. Thanks for looking anyways.

I wasn't aware of this problem with JRiver. I suggest you report it on the JRiver forum. The JRiver developers are usually very responsive to problem reports.

[DavidHB]

(21-04-2015 19:44)codenx Wrote:  I tried mp3tag, it does not even support editing Language tag.

Mp3Tag does support the insertion and editing of Language tags. If you wish them to display in the tag editing panel, you have to specify that in the options dialog. Otherwise, you use the Extended Tags dialog to access the Language tags.

I tested this with FLAC files, and it worked perfectly. When I converted those same files to .mp3 using dBpoweramp, the language tab was absent. FLAC uses Vorbis tags, which are more flexibly defined than ID3v2 tags. I'd guess that the real problem is in the metadata definition rather than in the software (MP3Tag or JRiver).

David

[codenx]

(21-04-2015 23:37)DavidHB Wrote:  Mp3Tag does support the insertion and editing of Language tags. If you wish them to display in the tag editing panel, you have to specify that in the options dialog. Otherwise, you use the Extended Tags dialog to access the Language tags.

Ah, thanks much. I got mp3tag to work. I'm going to switch to mp3tag. Jriver is too big to use just as a tagging tool.

(21-04-2015 23:37)DavidHB Wrote:  I'd guess that the real problem is in the metadata definition rather than in the software (MP3Tag or JRiver).
David

I'm not sure what you mean by metadata definition. I posted this query to JRiver, lets see what they say.

[DavidHB]

(22-04-2015 00:56)codenx Wrote:  I'm not sure what you mean by metadata definition.

Metadata = data about data = (in this case) your tags. The definitions are of what information goes in which tag. Note that (AFAIK) there is no official specification of tag mappings for any version of ID3v2; there are simply a set of conventions which hardware manufacturers and software writers follow (or not). The tag mappings used in MinimServer are on this page of the User Guide.

You will see from this that MinimServer maps the Vorbis language tag to TLAN in ID3v2.3 and ID3v2.4, Why this was not picked up by JRiver (and dbPoweramp in my case) I do not know, but the mappings are not 'official'. It will be interesting to see what the JRiver people say.

David

[Later edit] I subsequently used MP3Tag to add Language tags to the MP3 files from which they had been omitted by dBpoweramp. According to this page of MP3Tag Help, these tags map to TLAN, and as such are compatible with MinimServer.

[codenx]

Ok, I got a response from Jriver. Looks like I missed a setting to enable saving the Language tag to the file. Apparently its a per-tag setting and for some tags it is disabled. However, the tag is not saved as TLAN for MP3 ID3V2, it uses "Language" instead! And here's the kicker: Minimserver indexes this correctly even though it should have been TLAN. I guess the credit goes to Minimserver for being flexible

The question is, if I use JRiver now and later switch the UPNP server from Minimserver to something else will it break compatibility? I dont want to make a choice now and later tied to it because of compatibility issues.

Here's a summary of my finding, in case someone else runs into the same issue with Language tagging:

JRiver: Writes Language tag correctly for FLAC. Writes Language as Language instead of TLAN for mp3. Minimserver indexes both FLAC and MP3 correctly.

Mp3Tag: Writes Language tag correctly for FLAC. Writes Language as TLAN for mp3. Minimserver index both FLAC and mp3 correctly.

This is what David observed too with mp3tag. For now, i'll stick with JRiver for another reason(*).

PS1: The id3v2 spec says the TLAN values has to be a 3 letter code (according to some ISO spec I cant remember, e.g. 'eng', 'fra', etc. But I write 'English', 'Tamil', etc and Minimserver still displays them exactly as written. Not sure if this will be an issue if I switch to a different UPNP server.

PS2(*): Mp3Tag is slow when saving tags to a SMB share on a NAS device, I use MAC. JRiver is significantly faster, both in importing from NAS and saving tags to NAS.

[simoncn]

(25-04-2015 19:11)codenx Wrote:  Ok, I got a response from Jriver. Looks like I missed a setting to enable saving the Language tag to the file. Apparently its a per-tag setting and for some tags it is disabled. However, the tag is not saved as TLAN for MP3 ID3V2, it uses "Language" instead! And here's the kicker: Minimserver indexes this correctly even though it should have been TLAN. I guess the credit goes to Minimserver for being flexible

The question is, if I use JRiver now and later switch the UPNP server from Minimserver to something else will it break compatibility? I dont want to make a choice now and later tied to it because of compatibility issues.

I can only answer questions about MinimServer, not about some other server that you might decide to use in the future.

Quote:PS1: The id3v2 spec says the TLAN values has to be a 3 letter code (according to some ISO spec I cant remember, e.g. 'eng', 'fra', etc. But I write 'English', 'Tamil', etc and Minimserver still displays them exactly as written. Not sure if this will be an issue if I switch to a different UPNP server.

I don't have any plans at present to change the way MinimServer handles this. It's possible that some other server might enforce the ID3v2 rules more strictly.

[codenx]

(25-04-2015 21:32)simoncn Wrote:  

(25-04-2015 19:11)codenx Wrote:  The question is, if I use JRiver now and later switch the UPNP server from Minimserver to something else will it break compatibility? I dont want to make a choice now and later tied to it because of compatibility issues.

I can only answer questions about MinimServer, not about some other server that you might decide to use in the future.

Totally fair, I'm merely confused by the myriad ways in which a spec is implemented. I would take an implementation that is fairly loose in interpreting the standard any day over something that is draconian over it This is precisely why I love Minimserver, I'll worry about future in future

(25-04-2015 21:32)simoncn Wrote:  

(25-04-2015 19:11)codenx Wrote:  PS1: The id3v2 spec says the TLAN values has to be a 3 letter code (according to some ISO spec I cant remember, e.g. 'eng', 'fra', etc. But I write 'English', 'Tamil', etc and Minimserver still displays them exactly as written. Not sure if this will be an issue if I switch to a different UPNP server.

I don't have any plans at present to change the way MinimServer handles this. It's possible that some other server might enforce the ID3v2 rules more strictly.

Please dont When others dont play by the rules I rather prefer an indexer that is more lenient. Thanks for the awesome program. In the end I chose to use JRiver to write the Language tag by using the full names and added Language to the indexTags and it works like a charm.