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Tagging Display Functionality Excellent
04-05-2015, 13:30
Post: #21
RE: Tagging Display Functionality Excellent
thanks for that David and I tend to agree with your approach. I'd updated TagOptions as recommended by Simon as "Artist.ignore.sort={The, A, Les}, Album.ignore.sort={The, A, Les}". compared to what you have, would there be a difference? (I also notice, you're not using A or An as ignores, any reason for that?

anyway, despite having restarted minimserver on my NAS and clearing the cache, I've not seen any result!

thoughts?
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04-05-2015, 14:21 (This post was last modified: 04-05-2015 14:53 by DavidHB.)
Post: #22
RE: Tagging Display Functionality Excellent
(04-05-2015 13:30)Mbraham Wrote:  I also notice, you're not using A or An as ignores, any reason for that?

Nope, except that it hasn't bitten me yet. If there is another reason, it falls in the general area of, "if stupidity can be the cause, suspect that first".

(04-05-2015 13:30)Mbraham Wrote:  anyway, despite having restarted minimserver on my NAS and clearing the cache, I've not seen any result! ... thoughts?

It sounds as though Lightning is compiling its own list, which in my book would be a reason to ditch Lightning instantly. Can you try another Control Point? What player/renderer are you using?

[later edit] Another thought might be that you are using folder view (which accesses the folder/album names in the file system, rather than the tags in your files); that would not be affected by any MinimServer settings. If you are using folder view, try selecting Albums instead.

David
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04-05-2015, 14:57
Post: #23
RE: Tagging Display Functionality Excellent
I'm using Auralic Aries as player, with the propriety app Lightning DS as control point. I had understood that using the tagging in MinimServer would overcome the sorting issues. I agree, it's been very annoying to say the least that this feature is not well supported by the LDS itself.
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04-05-2015, 17:09 (This post was last modified: 04-05-2015 22:25 by DavidHB.)
Post: #24
RE: Tagging Display Functionality Excellent
(04-05-2015 14:57)Mbraham Wrote:  I'm using Auralic Aries as player, with the propriety app Lightning DS as control point. I had understood that using the tagging in MinimServer would overcome the sorting issues. I agree, it's been very annoying to say the least that this feature is not well supported by the LDS itself.

I'm still unsure what the problem is, and would not necessarily give up just yet. I was particularly interested to read that the Aries supports the OpenHome specification sponsored by Linn. This means that it ought to work with a control point, such as Linn Kazoo or Linn Kinsky, which works with OpenHome.

Firstly, can you say what browsing sequence you used in Lightning? If it is using the MinimServer browse list unchanged, you should see 'nnn albums' followed by 'nnnn items' at the top of the list, then your indexed tags (including Artist) and finally '[folder view]' at the bottom. If that is not what you see, please could you say what you are seeing.

If the MinimServer list appears as described, click on the name of a tag you have set to ignore 'the' and browse the results. Is 'the' etc. being ignored? If not, are there any error messages in the MinimServer log?

If those steps are not producing useful results, is it possible for you to install an alternative control point on a PC or a Mac? If it is, I suggest that you download and install Kazoo (not Kazoo Server) from this page. If all is well, Kazoo should recognise both MinimServer (from the Kazoo Home page, select Settings and set MinimServer as the Media Server) and your Aries (which should be in a 'room'). Then try browsing your library with Kazoo, and see if 'the' is being ignored as per your MinimServer settings.

Simon is away from home at the moment, so he tells us, so I suppose his postings here will be less frequent than usual. But if we are lucky, and he provides the answer to your problem, please ignore my suggestions.

David
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04-05-2015, 22:31
Post: #25
RE: Tagging Display Functionality Excellent
well, I'm not intending to give up as overall, I do like the LDS app (despite having to go through these loops). I'll try to respond to your post:
"Firstly, can you say what browsing sequence you used in Lightning? If it is using the MinimServer browse list unchanged, you should see 'nnn albums' followed by 'nnnn items' at the top of the list, then your indexed tags (including Artist) and finally '[folder view]' at the bottom. If that is not what you see, please could you say what you are seeing."

am not sure I understand where I can find these settings. (in MinimServer logs/ properties?)

pending this being clarified, I did install Kazoo as suggested and it does appear to function / sort my library as intended with ignoring "the, A, etc". the UI is a lot less user-friendly t/ appealing though overall - compared to the LDS.

(can I add a screenshot to posts on this forum?) perhaps it would help if I share the currently listed properties of the MinimServer.
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04-05-2015, 22:42
Post: #26
RE: Tagging Display Functionality Excellent
(04-05-2015 22:31)Mbraham Wrote:  well, I'm not intending to give up as overall, I do like the LDS app (despite having to go through these loops). I'll try to respond to your post:
"Firstly, can you say what browsing sequence you used in Lightning? If it is using the MinimServer browse list unchanged, you should see 'nnn albums' followed by 'nnnn items' at the top of the list, then your indexed tags (including Artist) and finally '[folder view]' at the bottom. If that is not what you see, please could you say what you are seeing."

am not sure I understand where I can find these settings. (in MinimServer logs/ properties?)

pending this being clarified, I did install Kazoo as suggested and it does appear to function / sort my library as intended with ignoring "the, A, etc". the UI is a lot less user-friendly t/ appealing though overall - compared to the LDS.

(can I add a screenshot to posts on this forum?) perhaps it would help if I share the currently listed properties of the MinimServer.

If Kazoo has the "correct" sorting and Lightning DS doesn't, this is a limitation of Lightning DS and there is nothing that can be done in MinimServer to fix it. I suggest you contact the Lightning DS developers for advice and refer them to this thread.
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04-05-2015, 23:49 (This post was last modified: 04-05-2015 23:51 by DavidHB.)
Post: #27
RE: Tagging Display Functionality Excellent
I think Simon has given you the answer, but, as you took the trouble to follow my advice, I ought to respond also.

(04-05-2015 22:31)Mbraham Wrote:  well, I'm not intending to give up as overall, I do like the LDS app (despite having to go through these loops). I'll try to respond to your post

I agree that it is unfortunate that, when streaming music systems which work well can be very satisfying to use, the learning curve for new users is often so steep, and the technology so often has irritating glitches.

(04-05-2015 22:31)Mbraham Wrote:  I am not sure I understand where I can find these settings. (in MinimServer logs/ properties?)

This is the initial list of browsing options sent by MinimServer to the Control Point. In Kazoo (tile view), it looks like the screenshot below. It is not a list of properties. If the Control Point displays this list unchanged (which, in my opinion, is what it should do), then the browsing sequence is determined by MinimServer.

(04-05-2015 22:31)Mbraham Wrote:  ... pending this being clarified, I did install Kazoo as suggested and it does appear to function / sort my library as intended with ignoring "the, A, etc". the UI is a lot less user-friendly t/ appealing though overall - compared to the LDS.

Kazoo is not my ideal Control Point either, but it provides a useful point of common reference, as I do not have Lightning. What your results show is, as Simon said, that MinimServer is working correctly, and Lightning DS is changing the results coming from MinimServer before it presents them. That, in my view (and I can explain why if you wish), is bad practice. At the very least, Lightning DS ought to have a setting to present the server browse tree unchanged. Unfortunately, as Simon also said, there is nothing he can do to change this situation, and you need to refer the matter to AURALiC.

There are other Control Points you can investigate. My personal favourite (and Simon's too, I believe) is BubbleDS Next, which runs on Android tablets and phones, but will not help you if you are committed to iOS.

I'm sorry that I could not be of more help, but would be interested to know what response you get from AURALiC

David


Screenshot:

[Image: linn_kazoo_small.png]
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05-05-2015, 19:28
Post: #28
RE: Tagging Display Functionality Excellent
thanks to both Simon and David. much appreciate the offered feedback. I am indeed iOS bound from an available controls point of view. I'll definitely make another attempt with Auralic to try convince them and will share whichever feedback they'll come up with for your information.

For now, I'll continue to 'live with' the sub ideal sorting in my LDS until either a different control point comes available or Auralic will come to terms. They do apparently plan to publish a new version early May - per the Hi End show in Munich, so maybe that would improve matters as well. Little to no details have been published so far around this update.

M
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05-05-2015, 22:33 (This post was last modified: 05-05-2015 22:33 by DavidHB.)
Post: #29
RE: Tagging Display Functionality Excellent
(05-05-2015 19:28)Mbraham Wrote:  For now, I'll continue to 'live with' the sub ideal sorting in my LDS until either a different control point comes available or Auralic will come to terms. They do apparently plan to publish a new version early May - per the Hi End show in Munich, so maybe that would improve matters as well. Little to no details have been published so far around this update.

If I have understood things correctly, what is needed is for the software to stop doing something, which is probably technically straightforward but perhaps ideologically difficult.

If you ask someone to write an app. called a Control Point, it can be hard for them to believe that it should not control everything in the system, though in fact it shouldn't. AURALiC may see such a change as handing over part of the look and feel of their product to (in this case) MinimServer. But other Control Points (including Bubble and Kazoo) live with this, and they improve the user experience by doing so.

David
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