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Tagging and Sorting for Multiple Artists
31-12-2014, 01:53
Post: #1
Tagging and Sorting for Multiple Artists
Hi,
First, thanks for the great server. I have a question regarding tagging and sorting which may have been discussed previously but I am unable to find and exact match for the issue I am having in the forum.

All my files are FLAC, have been tagged with dbPoweramp, Foobar2000 or MP3Tag. They all have album artist tags, artist sort tags and album artist sort tags. Minimserver is running on a QNAP NAS version 0.8 update 42.

My issue is with files that have multiple artist tags. For instance, if I have a track where there are 2 artists, Jackson Browne and Bonnie Raitt, it is tagged with 2 artist tags. What I would like to happen is in the All Artists list on minimserver, I would like to see Jackson Browne under Browne, Jackson and Bonnie Raitt under Raitt, Bonnie. However if I just have one Artist Sort tag (say Browne, Jackson) all Bonnie Raitt titles will be sorted under B. Same seems to happen if I have multiple Artist Sort tags (Browne, Jackson//Raitt, Bonnie). I also get a warning error on the log file Warning: Custom value conflict for ARTIST tag ......

In the Artist list and Album Artist list things are fine, presumably because it is checking the album artist tag.

Settings for Minimserver are:
Index tags: Artist, AlbumArtist, Date, Genre, All Artists, Composer, Conductor, Orchestra
Item Tags: Artist Sort, Album Artist Sort
tagOptions: Album.sortTags={Album, Artist}, all.ignore.sort={The}
tagValue: Artist.value.sort={Artist Sort}, AlbumArtist.value.sort={Album Artist Sort}
tagCustom: AlbumArtist.displayRole={artist}, Composer.displayRole={artist}
tagFormat: Artist.displayFormat={$artist$orchestra$conductor}

Any clues would be helpful, although it isn't a killer.

Cheers, Kel
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31-12-2014, 09:45
Post: #2
RE: Tagging and Sorting for Multiple Artists
(31-12-2014 01:53)muzz77 Wrote:  Hi,
First, thanks for the great server. I have a question regarding tagging and sorting which may have been discussed previously but I am unable to find and exact match for the issue I am having in the forum.

All my files are FLAC, have been tagged with dbPoweramp, Foobar2000 or MP3Tag. They all have album artist tags, artist sort tags and album artist sort tags. Minimserver is running on a QNAP NAS version 0.8 update 42.

My issue is with files that have multiple artist tags. For instance, if I have a track where there are 2 artists, Jackson Browne and Bonnie Raitt, it is tagged with 2 artist tags. What I would like to happen is in the All Artists list on minimserver, I would like to see Jackson Browne under Browne, Jackson and Bonnie Raitt under Raitt, Bonnie. However if I just have one Artist Sort tag (say Browne, Jackson) all Bonnie Raitt titles will be sorted under B. Same seems to happen if I have multiple Artist Sort tags (Browne, Jackson//Raitt, Bonnie). I also get a warning error on the log file Warning: Custom value conflict for ARTIST tag ......

In the Artist list and Album Artist list things are fine, presumably because it is checking the album artist tag.

Settings for Minimserver are:
Index tags: Artist, AlbumArtist, Date, Genre, All Artists, Composer, Conductor, Orchestra
Item Tags: Artist Sort, Album Artist Sort
tagOptions: Album.sortTags={Album, Artist}, all.ignore.sort={The}
tagValue: Artist.value.sort={Artist Sort}, AlbumArtist.value.sort={Album Artist Sort}
tagCustom: AlbumArtist.displayRole={artist}, Composer.displayRole={artist}
tagFormat: Artist.displayFormat={$artist$orchestra$conductor}

Any clues would be helpful, although it isn't a killer.

Cheers, Kel

To make this work correctly, the list of Artist Sort tags needs to correspond exactly to the list of Artist tags, for example:

Artist tags: Jackson Browne\\Bonnie Raitt
Artist Sort tags: Browne, Jackson\\Raitt, Bonnie

It is important to make sure these tag lists match exactly for every file.

If you have matching tag lists for every file and you are getting "Custom value conflict for ARTIST tag" messages, please post an extract from the MinimServer log showing the complete exact text of these messages.
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31-12-2014, 22:25
Post: #3
RE: Tagging and Sorting for Multiple Artists
Thanks for the quick reply, Simon. I'll go through and check all the tags, I'm guessing there are some that are missing, when that's done I'll post the log if I still have errors. I know there are some files where there is only one artist sort tag.

Cheers,

Kel
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01-01-2015, 02:46
Post: #4
RE: Tagging and Sorting for Multiple Artists
Hi Simon, OK, here's the log. There are lots of errors, at first I thought they were because of multiple tags (some are) but there are others that I just can't work out.

Before I added the sort tags to the properties there were no errors in the log. Last night I also upgraded to QNAP MinimServer-0.8.3-x86 and MinimWatch 0.8.3a.

If you look at the first 2 items in the log there are no multiple tags. All tags in these files appear the same as the other files for those albums. I tried editing the tags in MP3tag in case there was something wrong. I saved the files and restarted Minimserver with startupScan set to full, but the errors persist.

The tracks still appear in my control point (Krell ipad app for Connect) so it's not killing anything. I'd really just like to get to the bottom of what is causing the error.

Thanks, Kel


Attached File(s)
.txt  muzz77_minimserver_log.txt (Size: 32.6 KB / Downloads: 9)
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01-01-2015, 08:50
Post: #5
RE: Tagging and Sorting for Multiple Artists
(01-01-2015 02:46)muzz77 Wrote:  Hi Simon, OK, here's the log. There are lots of errors, at first I thought they were because of multiple tags (some are) but there are others that I just can't work out.

Before I added the sort tags to the properties there were no errors in the log. Last night I also upgraded to QNAP MinimServer-0.8.3-x86 and MinimWatch 0.8.3a.

If you look at the first 2 items in the log there are no multiple tags. All tags in these files appear the same as the other files for those albums. I tried editing the tags in MP3tag in case there was something wrong. I saved the files and restarted Minimserver with startupScan set to full, but the errors persist.

The tracks still appear in my control point (Krell ipad app for Connect) so it's not killing anything. I'd really just like to get to the bottom of what is causing the error.

Thanks, Kel

These "Custom value conflict" messages mean that you have specified different sort values for the same tag value.

It's probably best to start with one specific case and debug the problem. The first message is:

Warning: custom value conflict for ALBUMARTIST tag 'Fitz & the Tantrums' in file Fitz & the Tantrums/More Than Just A Dream (Deluxe)/10 Fitz & the Tantrums - The End.flac

What is the value of the Album Artist Sort tag in this file?

If you look at all your other files with an ALBUMARTIST value of 'Fitz & the Tantrums', you should find that one or more of these files has an Album Artist Sort tag with some other value. This is the value conflict that is being reported.
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01-01-2015, 10:16
Post: #6
RE: Tagging and Sorting for Multiple Artists
Thanks Simon,

I wasn't aware that it was comparing those tags across albums. There were 2 Fitz & the Tantrums albums, one had a sort tag with "&" and the other album had "And". I have corrected all the Album Artist and Album Artist Sort Tags and those ALBUMARTIST errors are gone. There are still heaps of ARTIST tag errors, they'll take some time as most of these but now I know it is comparing every instance I've got a starting point.

I think I'll be back with some more questions on the multiple artists.

Thanks for the support, On New Year's Day no less.

Have a great New Year, Kel
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01-01-2015, 10:56
Post: #7
RE: Tagging and Sorting for Multiple Artists
(01-01-2015 10:16)muzz77 Wrote:  Thanks Simon,

I wasn't aware that it was comparing those tags across albums. There were 2 Fitz & the Tantrums albums, one had a sort tag with "&" and the other album had "And". I have corrected all the Album Artist and Album Artist Sort Tags and those ALBUMARTIST errors are gone. There are still heaps of ARTIST tag errors, they'll take some time as most of these but now I know it is comparing every instance I've got a starting point.

I think I'll be back with some more questions on the multiple artists.

Thanks for the support, On New Year's Day no less.

Have a great New Year, Kel

It is necessary to compare the sort values across albums because these sort values control the sort order of the Artist and All Artists indexes. Each index entry can only occupy one sort position and must therefore have a single consistent sort value.

Happy New Year!

Simon
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01-01-2015, 11:09
Post: #8
RE: Tagging and Sorting for Multiple Artists
You might be interested to know that it appears my tag editor (and it was probably Foobar) was only creating one entry for the "Artist Sort" tag. So, if I have 2 artists "Jackson Browne" and "Bonnie Raitt" entered as "Jackson Browne; Bonnie Raitt" it would create 2 ARTIST fields, but for the ARTIST SORT tag it would only create one field "Browne, Jackson; Raitt, Bonnie". Seems like I have to go back and manually add the second sort field. Cheers again for the assist.
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01-01-2015, 12:27
Post: #9
RE: Tagging and Sorting for Multiple Artists
(01-01-2015 11:09)muzz77 Wrote:  You might be interested to know that it appears my tag editor (and it was probably Foobar) was only creating one entry for the "Artist Sort" tag. So, if I have 2 artists "Jackson Browne" and "Bonnie Raitt" entered as "Jackson Browne; Bonnie Raitt" it would create 2 ARTIST fields, but for the ARTIST SORT tag it would only create one field "Browne, Jackson; Raitt, Bonnie". Seems like I have to go back and manually add the second sort field. Cheers again for the assist.

You would probably find it easier it do this using Mp3tag. The \\ separator for multiple values should work the same with all tag names.
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03-01-2015, 03:10
Post: #10
RE: Tagging and Sorting for Multiple Artists
OK, all files cleaned and a clear log file. Way to make people pay attention to their tagging Smile . I have two more questions and a couple of observations.

First, minimserver is working well with the Krell Connect ipad app, so you could probably add it to the list of compatible control points. I have tried advanced display formats yet but everything else works as it should. I have tried it with a couple of other servers, Asset (issue with compilation album artist display) and Twonky (just not very good), and minimserver is the clear winner. The app itself is pretty basic and its biggest downside is that it doesn't have a "queue" or let you create playlists on the fly.

To get round that limitation I've been trying a couple of other control points. Kinsky didn't do it for me and Lumin was a non starter. I am currently trying out Audionet iMM, which has the required features but seems to be ignoring the sorting done by minimserver and doing its own. In fact it seems to be somewhat random in what it does, but as far as I can tell it is trying to group the Artist list by the "ARTIST" tag and ignoring the "ARTIST SORT" tag. Just wondering if anyone else had any experience with this app and noticed similar weirdness.

As to the questions, I would like to create a second nITEMS list but have this one sorted by ARTIST rather than TITLE. Do I need to create a custom tag and copy the existing TITLE data or can I use an aliasTag to get the same result. I do wish to keep the existing nITEMS list, but I would like a one step drilldown to list of tracks by artist.

And finally, have you thought about designing a control point? Big Grin Seriously there is no one killer app out there that does it all and you have done such a good job with minimserver we'd all hope it would seem the logical next step.
Cheers, Kel
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