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transcoding only for selected devices
09-12-2014, 10:40 (This post was last modified: 09-12-2014 10:41 by freshman.)
Post: #1
transcoding only for selected devices
Hello,

I would like to ask, wether it is possible to setup transcoding from FLAC to, for example, MP3, or WAV only for selected devices...
The reason is called PS3 Wink. This damned device is quite good, but has very limited number of audio and video formats supported. Additionally to that I have two Linn DSes, and - since then - would prefer FLAC as a basic format. I could, of course, store my music in WAV, which is understood well by these two kind of devices, but ... I have at the moment over 22 000 music tracks, and converting them to WAV (apart from HD space consumption) would be a big pain ... Smile

Regards, Freshman
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09-12-2014, 11:29 (This post was last modified: 13-12-2014 08:31 by simoncn.)
Post: #2
RE: transcoding only for selected devices
(09-12-2014 10:40)freshman Wrote:  
Hello,

I would like to ask, wether it is possible to setup transcoding from FLAC to, for example, MP3, or WAV only for selected devices...
The reason is called PS3 Wink. This damned device is quite good, but has very limited number of audio and video formats supported. Additionally to that I have two Linn DSes, and - since then - would prefer FLAC as a basic format. I could, of course, store my music in WAV, which is understood well by these two kind of devices, but ... I have at the moment over 22 000 music tracks, and converting them to WAV (apart from HD space consumption) would be a big pain ... Smile

Regards, Freshman

There are two options for solving this problem.

The simplest and probably best solution is to enable flac:wav or flac:wav24 transcoding for both your Linn DSs and your PS3. If you haven't tried this with a Linn DS, you might be pleasantly surprised at what you are hearing (especially with wav24).

The other option is to specify multiple transcode targets (for example, flac:wav/L16 or flac:-/wav/L16). This presents a choice of streams to the control point and enables the control point to select a stream based on the renderer capabilities.

Edit: removed incorrect reference to mp3 as a transcoding output type for FLAC files.
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09-12-2014, 12:13
Post: #3
RE: transcoding only for selected devices
(09-12-2014 11:29)simoncn Wrote:  
(09-12-2014 10:40)freshman Wrote:  
Hello,

I would like to ask, wether it is possible to setup transcoding from FLAC to, for example, MP3, or WAV only for selected devices...
The reason is called PS3 Wink. This damned device is quite good, but has very limited number of audio and video formats supported. Additionally to that I have two Linn DSes, and - since then - would prefer FLAC as a basic format. I could, of course, store my music in WAV, which is understood well by these two kind of devices, but ... I have at the moment over 22 000 music tracks, and converting them to WAV (apart from HD space consumption) would be a big pain ... Smile

Regards, Freshman

There are two options for solving this problem.

The simplest and probably best solution is to enable flac:wav or flac:wav24 transcoding for both your Linn DSs and your PS3. If you haven't tried this with a Linn DS, you might be pleasantly surprised at what you are hearing (especially with wav24).

The other option is to specify multiple transcode targets (for example, flac:wav/mp3 or flac:-/wav/mp3). This presents a choice of streams to the control point and enables the control point to select a stream based on the renderer capabilities.
Simon,

Many thanks for such quick answer. Will try to play with the first solution (my network should be enough capable to manage with larger streams), and let you know about the results.

Many thanks
Freshman
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13-12-2014, 08:15
Post: #4
RE: transcoding only for selected devices
(09-12-2014 11:29)simoncn Wrote:  There are two options for solving this problem.

The simplest and probably best solution is to enable flac:wav or flac:wav24 transcoding for both your Linn DSs and your PS3. If you haven't tried this with a Linn DS, you might be pleasantly surprised at what you are hearing (especially with wav24).

The other option is to specify multiple transcode targets (for example, flac:wav/mp3 or flac:-/wav/mp3). This presents a choice of streams to the control point and enables the control point to select a stream based on the renderer capabilities.

Hi Simon,

Interesting. You seem to propose a combination (flac to MP3 transcoding) that does not work with my set up (unfortunately). When trying to set "flac:wav24/mp3, ....", MinimWatch tells me this is an unsupported transcoding combination 'flac:mp3'.

Am I missing something?
Can I change this somehow?

FYI I'm running MinimServer 0.8.2 update 42, MinimStreamer 0.4.3 and MinimWatch 0.8.2 update 23.

Thanks for your answer.
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13-12-2014, 08:30
Post: #5
RE: transcoding only for selected devices
(13-12-2014 08:15)jones Wrote:  Hi Simon,

Interesting. You seem to propose a combination (flac to MP3 transcoding) that does not work with my set up (unfortunately). When trying to set "flac:wav24/mp3, ....", MinimWatch tells me this is an unsupported transcoding combination 'flac:mp3'.

Am I missing something?
Can I change this somehow?

FYI I'm running MinimServer 0.8.2 update 42, MinimStreamer 0.4.3 and MinimWatch 0.8.2 update 23.

Thanks for your answer.

You are correct that flac to mp3 transcoding isn't supported. You can transcode network streams to mp3 but you can't transcode local files to mp3. I will edit my post to correct this.
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13-12-2014, 08:43
Post: #6
RE: transcoding only for selected devices
(13-12-2014 08:30)simoncn Wrote:  
(13-12-2014 08:15)jones Wrote:  Hi Simon,

Interesting. You seem to propose a combination (flac to MP3 transcoding) that does not work with my set up (unfortunately). When trying to set "flac:wav24/mp3, ....", MinimWatch tells me this is an unsupported transcoding combination 'flac:mp3'.

Am I missing something?
Can I change this somehow?

FYI I'm running MinimServer 0.8.2 update 42, MinimStreamer 0.4.3 and MinimWatch 0.8.2 update 23.

Thanks for your answer.

You are correct that flac to mp3 transcoding isn't supported. You can transcode network streams to mp3 but you can't transcode local files to mp3. I will edit my post to correct this.

Thanks for clarifying.
Perhaps needless to add, at least I would find it a useful feature to be able to transcode local flac files to MP3 as well.
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07-01-2019, 18:22
Post: #7
RE: transcoding only for selected devices
(09-12-2014 11:29)simoncn Wrote:  ...

The other option is to specify multiple transcode targets (for example, flac:wav/L16 or flac:-/wav/L16). This presents a choice of streams to the control point and enables the control point to select a stream based on the renderer capabilities.

Sorry to drag up an old thread, but this piqued my interest...

I've been happily using a Naim NDX for the last while which has native DSD64 support and recently added a Mu-so to the mix, which does not. To get around the incompatibilty, I added "dsf:wav24;88" to my stream.transcode option which (obviously) forces the NDX to 24/88.2 too.

Is it possible to do the same sort of thing in this scenario, where the NDX would play DSD64 natively, and the Mu-so 24/88.2?

If so, what would I need to enter into stream.transcode? My current settings are: "flac:wav, dsf:wav24;88"

That said, my cloth ears can't tell the difference between DSD64 and 24/88.2 anyway - it's the principle of the matter... Confused
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07-01-2019, 20:51 (This post was last modified: 07-01-2019 20:52 by simoncn.)
Post: #8
RE: transcoding only for selected devices
This might be possible, depending on how your control point and renderers work.

The control point issues UPnP Browse requests to the server (step 1). The results returned by the server include the audio MIME type of each track (step 2). The control point then sends the track details to the selected renderer (step 3) and the renderer requests the track from the server (step 4) and plays it.

This means the server has to commit to the MIME type (in your case, either DSF or WAV) at step 2. It can't change its mind at step 4, even if it knows that something else would be more suitable for the chosen renderer (which isn't possible using the UPnP protocol, but might be discoverable in some other way). Actually, it could change its mind and send a different MIME type, but this would be breaking the UPnP rules and might work with some renderers but not with others.

There is a UPnP tweak on this that can help in some cases, including yours. In step 2, the server can send multiple streams with different MIME types and let the control point choose which one to use for the renderer that the user has selected. For step 3, the control point can ask the renderer which MIME types it supports and can make sure it sends a stream that is OK for the renderer. Unfortunately, this part of the UPnP protocol is optional and not all renderers and control points support it.

You can try this out by setting stream.transcode to "flac:wav, dsf:-/wav24;88". With this setting, MinimServer sends the control point a DSD64 stream and a 24/88200 WAV stream in step 2 for each DSF track. The control point can ask the selected renderer whether it supports DSD64. If so, it can tell the renderer to play the DSD64 stream. If not, it can tell the renderer to play the WAV stream.

I will be interested to hear whether this works with your setup.
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08-01-2019, 08:43
Post: #9
RE: transcoding only for selected devices
Thank you for the detailed explanation - very much appreciated - unfortunately it didn't work. The NDX did indeed play the selected file as DSD64 but the Mu-so just sat there doing nothing, same as it would without the transcode setting.

Hey ho, it was worth a thought but I won't lose any sleep over it. Many thanks again. Smile
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08-01-2019, 09:28
Post: #10
RE: transcoding only for selected devices
I am not surprised to hear this as very few renderers and control points have correct support for this optional part of the UPnP specification.
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