MinimServer & Naim NDX/n-Stream Playlists errors

[simoncn]

(03-12-2014 17:12)stampie Wrote:  Thanks Simon. To clarify, at this point there is no play request. When selecting a playlist in the naim app, a list of the tracks is shown and a check is made to confirm the tracks are available. If the result is unavailable, then it wont let you actually try and play the tracks in question.

If you navigate to the track from album view it will play fine.

This sounds like an issue with the naim app to me.

Nick

Thanks for the clarification.

In the working log, I see this series of Browse requests:

Browse 0
Browse 0$=Artist (with start index 0)
Browse 0$=Artist (with start index 285)
Browse 0$=Artist$2379
Browse 0$=Artist$2379$albums
Browse 0$=Artist$2379$albums$*a772
(at this point, some artwork images are retrieved)

In the failing log, I see this series of Browse requests:

Browse 0
Browse 0$albums (with start index 0)
Browse 0$albums (with start index 855)
Browse 0
Browse 0$albums (with start index 0)
Browse 0$albums$*a882
Browse 0
Browse 0$=Date
Browse 0$=Date$1377

Does this give you any clues about the difference between the working playlist and the failing playlist? The working playlist seems to follow a hierarchical artist/album sequence and the failing playlist doesn't.

[stampie]

(03-12-2014 17:30)simoncn Wrote:  

(03-12-2014 17:12)stampie Wrote:  Thanks Simon. To clarify, at this point there is no play request. When selecting a playlist in the naim app, a list of the tracks is shown and a check is made to confirm the tracks are available. If the result is unavailable, then it wont let you actually try and play the tracks in question.

If you navigate to the track from album view it will play fine.

This sounds like an issue with the naim app to me.

Nick

Thanks for the clarification.

In the working log, I see this series of Browse requests:

Browse 0
Browse 0$=Artist (with start index 0)
Browse 0$=Artist (with start index 285)
Browse 0$=Artist$2379
Browse 0$=Artist$2379$albums
Browse 0$=Artist$2379$albums$*a772
(at this point, some artwork images are retrieved)

In the failing log, I see this series of Browse requests:

Browse 0
Browse 0$albums (with start index 0)
Browse 0$albums (with start index 855)
Browse 0
Browse 0$albums (with start index 0)
Browse 0$albums$*a882
Browse 0
Browse 0$=Date
Browse 0$=Date$1377

Does this give you any clues about the difference between the working playlist and the failing playlist? The working playlist seems to follow a hierarchical artist/album sequence and the failing playlist doesn't.

Possibly; in the naim app a playlist can be created in several different places. The defect could relate to where the playlist is created.

I will do some more testing and see what happens. I'll update the forum further once complete.

Nick

[stampie]

So, after trying out a few things I have narrowed down the cause of the problem, just not sure where a fix needs to be implemented.

Firstly, naim app creates the same playlist regardless of where it is carried out in the app (so is not relevant to the problem).

I have managed to copy some of the playlist files to my pc for analysis in notepad, and discovered the following:

- I created a new playlist for an album, which worked for a day, but then suddenly the naim app stated the files could not be located on the server.

- I then created another new playlist for the same album, which is still working a couple of days later.

- By comparing the playlists, there is a difference in the contents in a value called UUID, which is shown against each track in the playlist.

During this period I have added new music to my collection and updated minimserver and naim app accordingly. (I provide this information in case relevant to the changing UUID values)

Please find attached the two playlists for Simon to take a look at.

Based on Simon's input I will then raise the issue with Naim.

thanks for reading
Nick

[simoncn]

(07-12-2014 23:45)stampie Wrote:  So, after trying out a few things I have narrowed down the cause of the problem, just not sure where a fix needs to be implemented.

Firstly, naim app creates the same playlist regardless of where it is carried out in the app (so is not relevant to the problem).

I have managed to copy some of the playlist files to my pc for analysis in notepad, and discovered the following:

- I created a new playlist for an album, which worked for a day, but then suddenly the naim app stated the files could not be located on the server.

- I then created another new playlist for the same album, which is still working a couple of days later.

- By comparing the playlists, there is a difference in the contents in a value called UUID, which is shown against each track in the playlist.

During this period I have added new music to my collection and updated minimserver and naim app accordingly. (I provide this information in case relevant to the changing UUID values)

Please find attached the two playlists for Simon to take a look at.

Based on Simon's input I will then raise the issue with Naim.

thanks for reading
Nick

Thanks for this new information.

From a MinimServer perspective, the important difference seems to be the ObjID, not the UUID. The first track in the working playlist has an ObjID value of 0$=Artist$24061$albums$*a68$*i16448 and the first track in the not working playlist has an ObjID value of 0$=Date$908$albums$*a67$*i16401.

When MinimServer is restarted after adding new music, previous ObjIDs are likely to stop working. I'm not aware of anything in the UPnP specification that says this is incorrect behaviour.

I think the UUID field is something internal to the control point.

Some questions:

1) Are you using the new Naim app or the older n-Stream app?

2) How did you copy the playlists to your PC?

3) Do you see this problem if MinimServer hasn't been restarted?

[stampie]

(08-12-2014 01:20)simoncn Wrote:  

(07-12-2014 23:45)stampie Wrote:  So, after trying out a few things I have narrowed down the cause of the problem, just not sure where a fix needs to be implemented.

Firstly, naim app creates the same playlist regardless of where it is carried out in the app (so is not relevant to the problem).

I have managed to copy some of the playlist files to my pc for analysis in notepad, and discovered the following:

- I created a new playlist for an album, which worked for a day, but then suddenly the naim app stated the files could not be located on the server.

- I then created another new playlist for the same album, which is still working a couple of days later.

- By comparing the playlists, there is a difference in the contents in a value called UUID, which is shown against each track in the playlist.

During this period I have added new music to my collection and updated minimserver and naim app accordingly. (I provide this information in case relevant to the changing UUID values)

Please find attached the two playlists for Simon to take a look at.

Based on Simon's input I will then raise the issue with Naim.

thanks for reading
Nick

Thanks for this new information.

From a MinimServer perspective, the important difference seems to be the ObjID, not the UUID. The first track in the working playlist has an ObjID value of 0$=Artist$24061$albums$*a68$*i16448 and the first track in the not working playlist has an ObjID value of 0$=Date$908$albums$*a67$*i16401.

When MinimServer is restarted after adding new music, previous ObjIDs are likely to stop working. I'm not aware of anything in the UPnP specification that says this is incorrect behaviour.

I think the UUID field is something internal to the control point.

Some questions:

1) Are you using the new Naim app or the older n-Stream app?

2) How did you copy the playlists to your PC?

3) Do you see this problem if MinimServer hasn't been restarted?

1. New naim app
2. Via iTunes - using the file sharing section of 'apps'. File extention is .nmpl, but can be opened in text editor
3. I cannot be certain at this point. I will try and leave it untouched for a couple of days to see what happens. My suspicion is that there is a link to restart/rescan.

[simoncn]

(08-12-2014 09:49)stampie Wrote:  1. New naim app
2. Via iTunes - using the file sharing section of 'apps'. File extention is .nmpl, but can be opened in text editor
3. I cannot be certain at this point. I will try and leave it untouched for a couple of days to see what happens. My suspicion is that there is a link to restart/rescan.

Thanks for the quick reply. This is a known issue with the way the Naim app handles saved playlists. Because the object IDs have changed and the "n albums" menu text has also changed after adding new music, the Naim app can't find the playlist items.

I have sent my contact at Naim an email to ask if there is any outlook for a fix.

[rk1919]

(08-12-2014 12:57)simoncn Wrote:  

(08-12-2014 09:49)stampie Wrote:  1. New naim app
2. Via iTunes - using the file sharing section of 'apps'. File extention is .nmpl, but can be opened in text editor
3. I cannot be certain at this point. I will try and leave it untouched for a couple of days to see what happens. My suspicion is that there is a link to restart/rescan.

Thanks for the quick reply. This is a known issue with the way the Naim app handles saved playlists. Because the object IDs have changed and the "n albums" menu text has also changed after adding new music, the Naim app can't find the playlist items.

I have sent my contact at Naim an email to ask if there is any outlook for a fix.

Thank you for following this up as I'm having the same problem. Brilliant server otherwise.

[simoncn]

(17-12-2014 13:58)rk1919 Wrote:  Thank you for following this up as I'm having the same problem. Brilliant server otherwise.

I suggest you contact Naim support about this. If enough users report this as an issue, this should help raise the priority for Naim to do something.

[rk1919]

(18-12-2014 08:35)simoncn Wrote:  

(17-12-2014 13:58)rk1919 Wrote:  Thank you for following this up as I'm having the same problem. Brilliant server otherwise.

I suggest you contact Naim support about this. If enough users report this as an issue, this should help raise the priority for Naim to do something.

Thank you Simon. Heard back from Phil Harris at Naim.
Installed new MinimServer update and Naim app update and playlists now work.
Thank you all for your help.

[simoncn]

(20-12-2014 08:37)rk1919 Wrote:  Thank you Simon. Heard back from Phil Harris at Naim.
Installed new MinimServer update and Naim app update and playlists now work.
Thank you all for your help.

Which version number of the Naim app are you using? Is it on Android or iPad?

I have just tried the latest Android version (1.2) and I am still seeing this problem with playlist entries becoming invalid when I add a new album and do a Rescan.

The problem doesn't affect all playlist items. It depends on how you browse for a track before adding it to the playlist. If you browse via "n albums" from the top-level menu and the total number of albums changes, you will get the problem. If you browse via the Artist index, you will get the problem only if a new album is added for that artist.