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can sorting ignore characters like ", ' and (
14-11-2014, 16:04
Post: #1
can sorting ignore characters like ", ' and (
I have configured minimServer to ignore articles like "the" and "an" when sorting. But I noticed that I have track titles that start with quote characters or parentheses. I tried to get the server to ignore double quote by listing it on my ignore list, but this didn't work. And there's also the problem of titles like:

The 'roll'

where the word The needs to be ignored and then the single quote as well.

Is there any way to get sorting to ignore these characters?
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14-11-2014, 19:25
Post: #2
RE: can sorting ignore characters like ", ' and (
(14-11-2014 16:04)adrian Wrote:  I have configured minimServer to ignore articles like "the" and "an" when sorting. But I noticed that I have track titles that start with quote characters or parentheses. I tried to get the server to ignore double quote by listing it on my ignore list, but this didn't work. And there's also the problem of titles like:

The 'roll'

where the word The needs to be ignored and then the single quote as well.

Is there any way to get sorting to ignore these characters?

It should be possible to ignore any prefix string that doesn't include a comma ',' right brace '}' or leading or trailing spaces.

If you need to ignore a prefix string that includes these characters, you can set a custom sort value as described in this section.
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14-11-2014, 19:47
Post: #3
RE: can sorting ignore characters like ", ' and (
(14-11-2014 19:25)simoncn Wrote:  
(14-11-2014 16:04)adrian Wrote:  I have configured minimServer to ignore articles like "the" and "an" when sorting. But I noticed that I have track titles that start with quote characters or parentheses. I tried to get the server to ignore double quote by listing it on my ignore list, but this didn't work. And there's also the problem of titles like:

The 'roll'

where the word The needs to be ignored and then the single quote as well.

Is there any way to get sorting to ignore these characters?

It should be possible to ignore any prefix string that doesn't include a comma ',' right brace '}' or leading or trailing spaces.

If you need to ignore a prefix string that includes these characters, you can set a custom sort value as described in this section.

Are you sure? The implication is that if I ask it to ignore "the" then a title starting with "theater" will be sorted under "A", since it would remove the leading "the" leaving "ater". When I want to ignore double quote, there is no white space after the double quote character.

Note that I tried it, writing a sort.ignore={the,an,a,"} and it didn't seem to have any effect on the sorting of the titles starting with ". It does ignore "the", "an", and "a" as desired, so I think my setup is correct.
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14-11-2014, 22:14
Post: #4
RE: can sorting ignore characters like ", ' and (
(14-11-2014 19:47)adrian Wrote:  Are you sure? The implication is that if I ask it to ignore "the" then a title starting with "theater" will be sorted under "A", since it would remove the leading "the" leaving "ater". When I want to ignore double quote, there is no white space after the double quote character.

Note that I tried it, writing a sort.ignore={the,an,a,"} and it didn't seem to have any effect on the sorting of the titles starting with ". It does ignore "the", "an", and "a" as desired, so I think my setup is correct.

I checked the code and you are correct. When you ignore "the", MinimServer is looking for tag values starting with "the ", not tag values starting with "the". This is why "theater" doesn't sort under "A".

To get what you want, you will need to use custom sort values.
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17-11-2014, 14:05
Post: #5
RE: can sorting ignore characters like ", ' and (
(14-11-2014 22:14)simoncn Wrote:  
(14-11-2014 19:47)adrian Wrote:  Are you sure? The implication is that if I ask it to ignore "the" then a title starting with "theater" will be sorted under "A", since it would remove the leading "the" leaving "ater". When I want to ignore double quote, there is no white space after the double quote character.

Note that I tried it, writing a sort.ignore={the,an,a,"} and it didn't seem to have any effect on the sorting of the titles starting with ". It does ignore "the", "an", and "a" as desired, so I think my setup is correct.

I checked the code and you are correct. When you ignore "the", MinimServer is looking for tag values starting with "the ", not tag values starting with "the". This is why "theater" doesn't sort under "A".

To get what you want, you will need to use custom sort values.

So does this mean I add a new tag to my database, say TitleSort, and if a particular file has a title of "Foo Bar" (with the quotes in the title) then I set the titlesort tag to Foo Bar without the double quotes. And then I do something like

tagValue = Title.sort={TitleSort,Title}


If I have to modify my database I may have to consider instead removing the troublesome characters from the titles instead. Would it make sense to have a sort option to ignore a list of characters? I can't think of a situation where somebody wants their titles sorted on leading punctuation marks.
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17-11-2014, 14:26
Post: #6
RE: can sorting ignore characters like ", ' and (
(17-11-2014 14:05)adrian Wrote:  So does this mean I add a new tag to my database, say TitleSort, and if a particular file has a title of "Foo Bar" (with the quotes in the title) then I set the titlesort tag to Foo Bar without the double quotes. And then I do something like

tagValue = Title.sort={TitleSort,Title}

The setting is Title.value.sort={TitleSort}

Quote:If I have to modify my database I may have to consider instead removing the troublesome characters from the titles instead. Would it make sense to have a sort option to ignore a list of characters? I can't think of a situation where somebody wants their titles sorted on leading punctuation marks.

It would be possible to add something like this but I am concerned about making this already complex area even more complex. The use of TitleSort to provide a custom sort value for Title is reasonably well established as an industry standard and I think it makes sense for MinimServer to use this mechanism to handle exceptional cases.
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17-11-2014, 14:28
Post: #7
RE: can sorting ignore characters like ", ' and (
(17-11-2014 14:26)simoncn Wrote:  [quote='adrian' pid='12187' dateline='1416229551']
So does this mean I add a new tag to my database, say TitleSort, and if a particular file has a title of "Foo Bar" (with the quotes in the title) then I set the titlesort tag to Foo Bar without the double quotes. And then I do something like

tagValue = Title.sort={TitleSort,Title}

The setting is Title.value.sort={TitleSort}

If no TitleSort tag exists this will get its value from the Title tag?
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17-11-2014, 15:50
Post: #8
RE: can sorting ignore characters like ", ' and (
(17-11-2014 14:28)adrian Wrote:  The setting is Title.value.sort={TitleSort}

If no TitleSort tag exists this will get its value from the Title tag?

Yes, because of this (from the User guide):

As an example, the option setting Artist.value.sort={ArtistSort} would examine each audio file to see if it contains any Artist tags and ArtistSort tags. If both of these exist and there is an exact positional match (with the first ArtistSort tag value matching the first Artist tag value, etc.) the ArtistSort tag value is used as the sort value for the corresponding Artist tag value.

If there is a Title value without a TitleSort value, there is no exact positional match and you get the default sort value (the Title value).
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