Composition sorting (and Haydn symphonies)

[magister]

I'm in the process of ripping the complete Haydn symphonies that I just bought as a boxed set. That's 107 symphonies spread over 37 CDs. The issue of getting works to sort in "natural" order (i.e., 1 - 5 - 10 not 1 - 10 - 5) has come up before here. In this thread winxi explains how to address the problem if the album title is also the title of the work. In my situation, I'm using Composition and Group tags since each CD has multiple symphonies on it.

Is the best solution to create a CompositionSort tag, along the lines of the ComposerSort and AlbumSort tags? CompositionSort would have the padded numbers, while Composition would have the regular format. Then I would include CompositionSort:Composition under IndexTags and Composition under ItemTags -- is that right?

Thanks - magister

PS: I would like to acknowledge the kind person(s) who entered the metadata for the Haydn symphonies performed by the Stuttgart Chamber Orchestra with Dennis Russel Davies into the accuraterip database. While I have needed to adjust some of it, having it there (for all 37 CDs) to start with has saved me a _lot_ of time. And, if anyone wants all of Haydn's symphonies, I've been pleased so far with the ones I've listened to. This set got a few negative reviews online and Sony let it go out of print, but you can get it used and I think it's a good choice.

[simoncn]

(17-04-2014 03:00)magister Wrote:  I'm in the process of ripping the complete Haydn symphonies that I just bought as a boxed set. That's 107 symphonies spread over 37 CDs. The issue of getting works to sort in "natural" order (i.e., 1 - 5 - 10 not 1 - 10 - 5) has come up before here. In this thread winxi explains how to address the problem if the album title is also the title of the work. In my situation, I'm using Composition and Group tags since each CD has multiple symphonies on it.

Is the best solution to create a CompositionSort tag, along the lines of the ComposerSort and AlbumSort tags? CompositionSort would have the padded numbers, while Composition would have the regular format. Then I would include CompositionSort:Composition under IndexTags and Composition under ItemTags -- is that right?

Thanks - magister

I don't think this will do what you are hoping for. It isn't possible to sort compositions (in the Composition index list) using some other tag. Also, the control point display of the composition name uses the Group tag, not the Composition tag.

The closest you can get at present to what you want is to use Symphony 001 (etc) in the Composition tag and Symphony 1 (etc.) in the Group tag. You don't need a CompositionSort tag and you don't need to change indexTags or itemTags.

[magister]

(17-04-2014 10:29)simoncn Wrote:  I don't think this will do what you are hoping for. It isn't possible to sort compositions (in the Composition index list) using some other tag. Also, the control point display of the composition name uses the Group tag, not the Composition tag.

The closest you can get at present to what you want is to use Symphony 001 (etc) in the Composition tag and Symphony 1 (etc.) in the Group tag.

Thank you Simon. I have been padding both the Composition and Group tags with zeros since I thought they should be identical. I'll change some of the Group tags and see how that looks.

[magister]

(17-04-2014 10:29)simoncn Wrote:  I don't think this will do what you are hoping for. It isn't possible to sort compositions (in the Composition index list) using some other tag. Also, the control point display of the composition name uses the Group tag, not the Composition tag.

I just experimented with removing the padding zeros from the Group tags on one CD. If I choose to play a symphony by way of the album (e.g., by selecting composer [Haydn] --> subgenre [symphony] --> album [Haydn: The Complete Symphonies] then what you say is true; the name appears without the leading zero, i.e., is displayed through the Group tag.

If I choose without going through the album, (composer --> subgenre --> composition), which is how I usually operate, then the padding zeros are shown since, I think, the composition tag is used in this situation.

It would be helpful to have a solution for this in a future version, either through a compositionSort tag or some other way. Off the top of my head I can think of a half dozen collections of works, all in the standard repertoire of classical music, where this situation will arise (Bach cantatas, Mozart symphonies and piano concertos and piano sonatas, Haydn symphonies and piano sonatas, etc.) and there are certainly more.

Thanks - magister

[simoncn]

(17-04-2014 20:09)magister Wrote:  I just experimented with removing the padding zeros from the Group tags on one CD. If I choose to play a symphony by way of the album (e.g., by selecting composer [Haydn] --> subgenre [symphony] --> album [Haydn: The Complete Symphonies] then what you say is true; the name appears without the leading zero, i.e., is displayed through the Group tag.

If I choose without going through the album, (composer --> subgenre --> composition), which is how I usually operate, then the padding zeros are shown since, I think, the composition tag is used in this situation.

Are you saying that the padding zeros are shown on the Composition index menu? This is expected. However, the padding zeros should not be shown on the Now Playing screen in the control point, because this information is taken from the Group tag.

Quote:It would be helpful to have a solution for this in a future version, either through a compositionSort tag or some other way. Off the top of my head I can think of a half dozen collections of works, all in the standard repertoire of classical music, where this situation will arise (Bach cantatas, Mozart symphonies and piano concertos and piano sonatas, Haydn symphonies and piano sonatas, etc.) and there are certainly more.

Thanks - magister

I understand and appreciate the need for a convenient way to solve this problem.

[magister]

(17-04-2014 21:05)simoncn Wrote:  Are you saying that the padding zeros are shown on the Composition index menu? This is expected. However, the padding zeros should not be shown on the Now Playing screen in the control point.

That's right, zeros in the Composition index but not in the Now Playing screen.

Quote:I understand and appreciate the need for a convenient way to solve this problem.

Thank you Simon!

[simoncn]

(17-04-2014 21:57)magister Wrote:  

(17-04-2014 21:05)simoncn Wrote:  I understand and appreciate the need for a convenient way to solve this problem.

Thank you Simon!

The solution is now available in MinimServer update 25.