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Advantages of MinimStreamer
23-04-2014, 10:59 (This post was last modified: 23-04-2014 11:00 by gnomus.)
Post: #11
RE: Advantages of MinimStreamer
(23-04-2014 10:54)simoncn Wrote:  
(23-04-2014 09:38)gnomus Wrote:  I'm now back in the UK. I have followed the procedure above. I only got one file which I have saved as a .txt file and attached to this post. Thanks again for your ongoing assistance.

The idea was to go through the full set of steps with a non-transcoding setup (producing log 1) and then repeat the same steps with a transcoding setup (producing log 2). However, the log you posted shows a problem, so I don't need the other log at the moment.

I have a possible theory for what might be causing this. To check this, please try doing a small skip near the start of the file and see whether this works. For example, play the file for 5 seconds only and skip forward by a very small amount (10 seconds). Does this work?

I just tried small skips. They seem to work as they should. I was able to do this a few times within the same track. Both files are now uploaded.
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23-04-2014, 11:04
Post: #12
RE: Advantages of MinimStreamer
Quick update - I seem to be able to skip up to around 2 minutes into a track. Much beyond this and I jump to the next track in the playlist.
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23-04-2014, 12:18
Post: #13
RE: Advantages of MinimStreamer
(23-04-2014 11:04)gnomus Wrote:  Quick update - I seem to be able to skip up to around 2 minutes into a track. Much beyond this and I jump to the next track in the playlist.

How did you produce the FLAC files? Do you happen to know if they contain a seek table?
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23-04-2014, 12:22
Post: #14
RE: Advantages of MinimStreamer
(23-04-2014 09:38)gnomus Wrote:  I'm now back in the UK. I have followed the procedure above. I only got one file which I have saved as a .txt file and attached to this post. Thanks again for your ongoing assistance.

Ignore the above. I have now followed the instructions correctly. I have a log for playing FLAC via MinimServer and a log for playing WAV via MinimStreamer. Hope this helps. Thanks again for your assistance.

Thanks! These logs show that MinimServer responds to the seek request (GET with Range header) in less than 30 ms. When the same request is received by MinimStreamer, there is no response for 10 seconds, at which point the Sonos gives up and closes the connection.
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23-04-2014, 12:26
Post: #15
RE: Advantages of MinimStreamer
(23-04-2014 12:18)simoncn Wrote:  
(23-04-2014 11:04)gnomus Wrote:  Quick update - I seem to be able to skip up to around 2 minutes into a track. Much beyond this and I jump to the next track in the playlist.

How did you produce the FLAC files? Do you happen to know if they contain a seek table?

FLAC files were ripped (uncompressed) via DBPowerAmp. I have no idea what a seek table is. If you tell me how to find out, I could have a look.
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23-04-2014, 12:27
Post: #16
RE: Advantages of MinimStreamer
(23-04-2014 12:22)simoncn Wrote:  
(23-04-2014 09:38)gnomus Wrote:  I'm now back in the UK. I have followed the procedure above. I only got one file which I have saved as a .txt file and attached to this post. Thanks again for your ongoing assistance.

Ignore the above. I have now followed the instructions correctly. I have a log for playing FLAC via MinimServer and a log for playing WAV via MinimStreamer. Hope this helps. Thanks again for your assistance.

Thanks! These logs show that MinimServer responds to the seek request (GET with Range header) in less than 30 ms. When the same request is received by MinimStreamer, there is no response for 10 seconds, at which point the Sonos gives up and closes the connection.

Yes - there is a delay (no sound) for around 10 seconds, then it jumps to the next track. You think that this might be related to the Sonos then?
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23-04-2014, 12:31
Post: #17
RE: Advantages of MinimStreamer
(23-04-2014 12:26)gnomus Wrote:  FLAC files were ripped (uncompressed) via DBPowerAmp. I have no idea what a seek table is. If you tell me how to find out, I could have a look.

Please upload the file you were using for the test to my FTP server and I will look at its internal structure. I will PM you the server details now.

Is there a reason why you ripped the files uncompressed? This takes more disk space and it might increase the time it takes to do track seeking in MinimStreamer.
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23-04-2014, 12:38
Post: #18
RE: Advantages of MinimStreamer
(23-04-2014 12:31)simoncn Wrote:  
(23-04-2014 12:26)gnomus Wrote:  FLAC files were ripped (uncompressed) via DBPowerAmp. I have no idea what a seek table is. If you tell me how to find out, I could have a look.

Please upload the file you were using for the test to my FTP server and I will look at its internal structure. I will PM you the server details now.

Is there a reason why you ripped the files uncompressed? This takes more disk space and it might increase the time it takes to do track seeking in MinimStreamer.

To be clear, you want both the files containing the two tracks on the album I was trying to play?

I went for uncompressed after a bit of Internet searching into the WAV vs Flac debate. There are folks, it seems, who believe that that one should rip to WAV files (the chap in my audio shop does this). I saw at least one post suggesting that uncompressed FLAC was a "compromise" position.

I would be mightily depressed at the thought of having to re-rip all my CDs again. I estimate that I have spent >50 hours on this so far (I am just starting to rip the "Classical" stuff now.)
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23-04-2014, 12:41
Post: #19
RE: Advantages of MinimStreamer
(23-04-2014 12:27)gnomus Wrote:  Yes - there is a delay (no sound) for around 10 seconds, then it jumps to the next track. You think that this might be related to the Sonos then?

I think the Sonos quite reasonably assumes that if the server hasn't responded within 10 seconds, something has gone seriously wrong and it needs to recover from this problem.

Seeking a transcoded stream will take longer than seeking a nontranscoded stream. Seeking to near the end of a track will take longer than seeking to near the start of a track. Seeking without a seek table will take longer than seeking with a seek table. Seeking an uncompressed FLAC file might take longer than seeking a compressed FLAC file (I would need to verify this by experiment). The challenge is to get MinimStreamer to respond within 10 seconds if all these factors are unfavourable.
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23-04-2014, 12:51
Post: #20
RE: Advantages of MinimStreamer
(23-04-2014 12:38)gnomus Wrote:  To be clear, you want both the files containing the two tracks on the album I was trying to play?

Just the file that you were using to test seeking (track 1).

Quote:I went for uncompressed after a bit of Internet searching into the WAV vs Flac debate. There are folks, it seems, who believe that that one should rip to WAV files (the chap in my audio shop does this). I saw at least one post suggesting that uncompressed FLAC was a "compromise" position.

I would be mightily depressed at the thought of having to re-rip all my CDs again. I estimate that I have spent >50 hours on this so far (I am just starting to rip the "Classical" stuff now.)

I would need to verify whether uncompressed files take longer to seek than compressed files.

If you decide to change to compressed FLAC files, you should be able to do a bulk conversion of your existing uncompressed files in dBpoweramp without the need for reripping.

The combination I am using is to rip to compressed FLAC files (default compression level) and play the files transcoded to WAV. I have compared the sound of compressed and uncompressed FLAC files, and I have compared the sound of different FLAC compression levels, and I haven't been able to hear any difference in the sound. However, I do hear a difference in the sound when I transcode a FLAC file to WAV.
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