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Album Artist while browsing
26-01-2014, 03:54
Post: #1
Album Artist while browsing
I'm using MinimServer (latest) with Bubble UPnP on an Android phone. When I browse, say with Genre > Composer and then display the artists, I noticed that only some of the results display the Album Artist tag. It seems that it's displayed only if an entire album fits the criteria; otherwise, it's not.

I don't know whether this is a bug or a feature, and I don't know whether it occurs because of MinimServer or BubbleUPnP.

I would rather the album artist always be shown, so that when I looked for, say, versions of the Schumann Piano Concerto, I could see the album artist regardless of what else is on the album.

Mike
Portland, Oregon, USA
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26-01-2014, 08:09
Post: #2
RE: Album Artist while browsing
(26-01-2014 03:54)Mike48 Wrote:  I'm using MinimServer (latest) with Bubble UPnP on an Android phone. When I browse, say with Genre > Composer and then display the artists, I noticed that only some of the results display the Album Artist tag. It seems that it's displayed only if an entire album fits the criteria; otherwise, it's not.

I don't know whether this is a bug or a feature, and I don't know whether it occurs because of MinimServer or BubbleUPnP.

I would rather the album artist always be shown, so that when I looked for, say, versions of the Schumann Piano Concerto, I could see the album artist regardless of what else is on the album.

What are you doing to "display the artists"? For example, are you choosing Artist, All Artists, or AlbumArtist from the MinimServer index?

Also, what do you mean by "some of the results display the Album Artist tag"? Where are you seeing this display?
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26-01-2014, 18:38
Post: #3
RE: Album Artist while browsing
(26-01-2014 08:09)simoncn Wrote:  What are you doing to "display the artists"? For example, are you choosing Artist, All Artists, or AlbumArtist from the MinimServer index?

Also, what do you mean by "some of the results display the Album Artist tag"? Where are you seeing this display?

Sorry, I meant to type "display the albums", but I typed "display the artists." Maybe best to give an example with exact steps:
  • In BubbleUPnP, connect to MinimServer.
  • From the Library screen, select Genre, Classical, Composer, Schuman.
  • From the results, click on "3 albums".
The list of albums appears, each with an icon and album title. Under the album title in some cases, the album artist is given. As far as I can tell, the album artist appears only when the entire album meets the criteria selected above. I don't know if it's MinimServer or BubbleUPnP that enforces that subset; I'd like to see the album artist in all cases.

Mike
Portland, Oregon, USA
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26-01-2014, 18:45
Post: #4
RE: Album Artist while browsing
(26-01-2014 18:38)Mike48 Wrote:  Sorry, I meant to type "display the albums", but I typed "display the artists." Maybe best to give an example with exact steps:
  • In BubbleUPnP, connect to MinimServer.
  • From the Library screen, select Genre, Classical, Composer, Schuman.
  • From the results, click on "3 albums".
The list of albums appears, each with an icon and album title. Under the album title in some cases, the album artist is given. As far as I can tell, the album artist appears only when the entire album meets the criteria selected above. I don't know if it's MinimServer or BubbleUPnP that enforces that subset; I'd like to see the album artist in all cases.

When the album artist appears,

1) is it different from the artist(s)?
2) does it appear in addition to the artist(s) or instead of them?
3) does the album have the same artist(s) for all tracks or do some of the tracks have different artist(s) than other tracks?
4) does the album have a single artist or multiple artists?
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26-01-2014, 19:04
Post: #5
RE: Album Artist while browsing
(26-01-2014 18:45)simoncn Wrote:  When the album artist appears,

1) is it different from the artist(s)?
2) does it appear in addition to the artist(s) or instead of them?
3) does the album have the same artist(s) for all tracks or do some of the tracks have different artist(s) than other tracks?
4) does the album have a single artist or multiple artists?

1) In this case, yes; but it can differ and still not appear.
2) The artist never appears. The album title always appears (this is after all a list of albums), and below it, the album artist sometimes appears.
3) The album has the same artist for all tracks, in this case. But another album has the same artist for all tracks and the album artist does not display in browse results.
4) Single artist in this case; but some albums with single artist do not display the album artist.

Again, it appears to me that the album artist is displayed only when the entire album meets the browsing criteria. So in the above example, there is no album artist shown for "Hanson Conducts Ives, Schuman" and there is none for "Harris, Schuman: Syms. No. 3" (both of which have tracks outside the criteria), but the album artist is shown for "Schuman: Syms. No. 7,10" (an entire album that meets the browse criteria).

I'll try to find a way to send a screen shot if that would help.

Mike
Portland, Oregon, USA
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26-01-2014, 19:35
Post: #6
RE: Album Artist while browsing
(26-01-2014 19:04)Mike48 Wrote:  1) In this case, yes; but it can differ and still not appear.
2) The artist never appears. The album title always appears (this is after all a list of albums), and below it, the album artist sometimes appears.
3) The album has the same artist for all tracks, in this case. But another album has the same artist for all tracks and the album artist does not display in browse results.
4) Single artist in this case; but some albums with single artist do not display the album artist.

Again, it appears to me that the album artist is displayed only when the entire album meets the browsing criteria. So in the above example, there is no album artist shown for "Hanson Conducts Ives, Schuman" and there is none for "Harris, Schuman: Syms. No. 3" (both of which have tracks outside the criteria), but the album artist is shown for "Schuman: Syms. No. 7,10" (an entire album that meets the browse criteria).

I'll try to find a way to send a screen shot if that would help.

Do you have the AlbumArtist.display.artistRole setting in your tagCustom property?
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26-01-2014, 19:52
Post: #7
RE: Album Artist while browsing
I think the issue concerns the display of artist information in general, not the album artist specifically. If MinimServer sends a complete album to the control point, it uses the UPnP container class "object.container.album.musicAlbum". If MinimServer sends the partial contents of an album, it uses the UPnP container class "object.container". In both cases, MinimServer is sending the same artist and album artist information, but BubbleUPnP appears to be ignoring the artist and album artist information if the UPnP container class is "object.container".
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27-01-2014, 18:55
Post: #8
RE: Album Artist while browsing
(26-01-2014 19:52)simoncn Wrote:  ... If MinimServer sends a complete album to the control point, it uses the UPnP container class "object.container.album.musicAlbum". If MinimServer sends the partial contents of an album, it uses the UPnP container class "object.container". In both cases, MinimServer is sending the same artist and album artist information, but BubbleUPnP appears to be ignoring the artist and album artist information if the UPnP container class is "object.container".
Simon, I contacted the BubbleUPnP author, who replied:

>> I could reproduce this issue. Unfortunately I cannot fix it without annoying side effects. For folders, BubbleUPnP only displays the album artist if the folder is known to be a music album (identified by the "object.container.album.musicAlbum" folder type). With the generic type "object.container", I have no idea what the folder contains. It could be photos or videos. And I don't want to display the folder's artist unconditionally.

>> Your best bet is to try to convince Simon to useobject.container.album.musicAlbum" for these folders containing partial albums. I think this would be acceptable but my guess is that Simon opinion will differ... <<

So Simon, would you be willing to take that approach (perhaps as an option)? It would help add useful functionality for those of us browsing classical music.

Mike

Mike
Portland, Oregon, USA
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27-01-2014, 20:24 (This post was last modified: 27-01-2014 20:24 by simoncn.)
Post: #9
RE: Album Artist while browsing
(27-01-2014 18:55)Mike48 Wrote:  Simon, I contacted the BubbleUPnP author, who replied:

>> I could reproduce this issue. Unfortunately I cannot fix it without annoying side effects. For folders, BubbleUPnP only displays the album artist if the folder is known to be a music album (identified by the "object.container.album.musicAlbum" folder type). With the generic type "object.container", I have no idea what the folder contains. It could be photos or videos. And I don't want to display the folder's artist unconditionally.

>> Your best bet is to try to convince Simon to useobject.container.album.musicAlbum" for these folders containing partial albums. I think this would be acceptable but my guess is that Simon opinion will differ... <<

So Simon, would you be willing to take that approach (perhaps as an option)? It would help add useful functionality for those of us browsing classical music.

Mike

According to the UPnP ContentDirectory specification, ".... an 'album' is typically a fixed published sequence of songs (e.g., an audio CD)."

MinimServer uses the 'object.container.album.musicAlbum' UPnP class for the complete contents of a CD and doesn't use it for a user-generated browsing selection of a partial subset of tracks from a CD. I think it would be confusing if these two different cases were treated in exactly the same way by MinimServer.

I don't fully understand why the author of BubbleUPnP thinks it would not be appropriate to display artist information on a generic container, if this is what the server has sent. However, I accept that it is up to the control point to decide whether or not information sent by the server should be displayed.

A possible compromise might be to use the 'object.container.playlistContainer' UPnP class to represent a partial subset of tracks from a CD. According to the UPnP ContentDirectory specification, this ".... may contain a mix of audio, video and images and is typically created by a user". I have tried sending this to BubbleUPnP with artist information, but the artist information is currently not displayed.
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27-01-2014, 21:57
Post: #10
RE: Album Artist while browsing
Thanks, Simon. I've passed your suggestion along to the BubbleUPnP author, along with my view that if the media owner has filled in the Album Artist tag, he or she probably won't mind seeing its contents, whatever the media type. I hope we can reach a compromise that works.

Mike
Portland, Oregon, USA
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