Post Reply 
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Basic error in numerical sorting of album names
12-01-2014, 13:08
Post: #11
RE: Basic error in numerical sorting of album names
(12-01-2014 12:26)DavidL Wrote:  I'm surprised that getting Mozart piano concertos, piano sonatas & symphonies, Haydn piano sonatas, string quartets & symphonies, Bach cantatas, Scarlatti sonatas etc etc to display in the correct order is regarded as 'unnatural'.

I would like an 'intelligent' or 'natural' sort order too. But if Simon wants to keep it simple I have no problem with adding leading zeros to display the works in the natural order.
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
12-01-2014, 15:19
Post: #12
RE: Basic error in numerical sorting of album names
(12-01-2014 09:24)simoncn Wrote:  I will do some experiments to see how iTunes handles this.

I've tried this, and iTunes sorts an album titled "Test 10 xxx" before an album titled "Test 2 xxx". This seems to show that the iTunes default sort order is the same as the MinimServer default sort order.
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
12-01-2014, 15:24
Post: #13
RE: Basic error in numerical sorting of album names
(12-01-2014 12:26)DavidL Wrote:  OK I can see the two points of view but it was my understanding that MinimServer was designed to cater well for libraries of classical music. I would strongly support the idea of adding an option for sorting albums to allow what you regard as 'unnatural' sorting via embedded numbers. I'm surprised that getting Mozart piano concertos, piano sonatas & symphonies, Haydn piano sonatas, string quartets & symphonies, Bach cantatas, Scarlatti sonatas etc etc to display in the correct order is regarded as 'unnatural'.

Did you try doing what I suggested in my earlier post? Based on my iTunes experiment, it appears you have customized the sort order in iTunes, which should mean your files contain ALBUMSORT tags. If you follow the steps that I suggested, you should be able to achieve the same custom sort order with MinimServer.
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
12-01-2014, 16:09
Post: #14
RE: Basic error in numerical sorting of album names
(12-01-2014 15:24)simoncn Wrote:  Did you try doing what I suggested in my earlier post? Based on my iTunes experiment, it appears you have customized the sort order in iTunes, which should mean your files contain ALBUMSORT tags. If you follow the steps that I suggested, you should be able to achieve the same custom sort order with MinimServer.

Yes, omitting step 3 of your recipe. I then restarted MinimServer but the result was unchanged from the previous listing on my controller display, so evidently there is no album sort tag set in my iTunes library (I have certainly not knowingly edited the albums for this). I'm not yet prepared to go to step 4 of your process and change the album tags for hundreds of album names containing numbers greater than 9, where this is a differentiator. I'd prefer a blanket sorting solution as described above (personally I feel this should be the default with pure alphabetical character sorting as an option).

I don't know how you have coded MinimServer but the sorting performance should not be degraded significantly by the addition of a single logical instruction to catch numeric characters.

David

System: ALAC iTunes library on Synology DS412+ (running MinimServer) > Airport Extreme bridge > Optical isolation > dCS Network Bridge (controlled by Galaxy Tab S2 tablet running BubbleUPnP&Mosaic) > PS Audio DirectStream DAC > Primare A60 > Harbeth SHL5plus 40th Anniversary model
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
12-01-2014, 17:41
Post: #15
RE: Basic error in numerical sorting of album names
(12-01-2014 09:29)simoncn Wrote:  At present, only the album list sort order can be customized (except for the 'ignoreThe' option, which can be applied to all lists). In a future release, I am hoping to provide additional options for customizing the sorting of other lists.
Thank you Simon. Looking forward to new releases!
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
12-01-2014, 18:00
Post: #16
RE: Basic error in numerical sorting of album names
(12-01-2014 16:09)DavidL Wrote:  [quote='simoncn' pid='6927' dateline='1389536699']

Did you try doing what I suggested in my earlier post? Based on my iTunes experiment, it appears you have customized the sort order in iTunes, which should mean your files contain ALBUMSORT tags. If you follow the steps that I suggested, you should be able to achieve the same custom sort order with MinimServer.

Just for completeness I stopped MinimServer running on my NAS and instead set it running on my Mac Mini, referencing the same music library (on the NAS). The display of tracks produced by MinimServer was identical to that obtained when it was running on the NAS.

David

System: ALAC iTunes library on Synology DS412+ (running MinimServer) > Airport Extreme bridge > Optical isolation > dCS Network Bridge (controlled by Galaxy Tab S2 tablet running BubbleUPnP&Mosaic) > PS Audio DirectStream DAC > Primare A60 > Harbeth SHL5plus 40th Anniversary model
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
12-01-2014, 18:05
Post: #17
RE: Basic error in numerical sorting of album names
(12-01-2014 16:09)DavidL Wrote:  I'd prefer a blanket sorting solution as described above (personally I feel this should be the default with pure alphabetical character sorting as an option).

Although I see the point of your request, I'd personally prefer the pure alphabetical sort order.
I don't like software which tries to be super-intelligent, because this will always be appropriate for just a part of the users. The other part will most likely be badly surprised by unexpected results. iTunes is the prototype of such a software.
Your proposed approach will always involve some kind of guessing the sort order. Improving this guessing would require complex algorithms and it is definitely not done with just a single logical instruction.
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
12-01-2014, 18:58
Post: #18
RE: Basic error in numerical sorting of album names
(12-01-2014 16:09)DavidL Wrote:  Yes, omitting step 3 of your recipe. I then restarted MinimServer but the result was unchanged from the previous listing on my controller display, so evidently there is no album sort tag set in my iTunes library (I have certainly not knowingly edited the albums for this). I'm not yet prepared to go to step 4 of your process and change the album tags for hundreds of album names containing numbers greater than 9, where this is a differentiator. I'd prefer a blanket sorting solution as described above (personally I feel this should be the default with pure alphabetical character sorting as an option).

I don't know how you have coded MinimServer but the sorting performance should not be degraded significantly by the addition of a single logical instruction to catch numeric characters.

David

Step 4 involved adding a single item to a property, not changing hundreds of tags. I'm wondering if we are both looking at the same list of steps.

I'm not sure how you are getting a different sort order in iTunes from the alphabetical sort order that I am seeing. I am using iTunes on Windows. Could this make a difference?
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
12-01-2014, 19:08
Post: #19
RE: Basic error in numerical sorting of album names
(12-01-2014 18:05)winxi Wrote:  
(12-01-2014 16:09)DavidL Wrote:  I'd prefer a blanket sorting solution as described above (personally I feel this should be the default with pure alphabetical character sorting as an option).

Although I see the point of your request, I'd personally prefer the pure alphabetical sort order.
I don't like software which tries to be super-intelligent, because this will always be appropriate for just a part of the users. The other part will most likely be badly surprised by unexpected results. iTunes is the prototype of such a software.
Your proposed approach will always involve some kind of guessing the sort order. Improving this guessing would require complex algorithms and it is definitely not done with just a single logical instruction.

As sorting strings 'correctly' with embedded numbers is the norm for handling file names etc in Windows and Mac OS there are very efficient algorithms available. Here's one reference including C# code:
http://www.codeproject.com/Articles/1101...-Sort-in-C

David

System: ALAC iTunes library on Synology DS412+ (running MinimServer) > Airport Extreme bridge > Optical isolation > dCS Network Bridge (controlled by Galaxy Tab S2 tablet running BubbleUPnP&Mosaic) > PS Audio DirectStream DAC > Primare A60 > Harbeth SHL5plus 40th Anniversary model
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
12-01-2014, 19:35
Post: #20
RE: Basic error in numerical sorting of album names
(12-01-2014 18:58)simoncn Wrote:  
(12-01-2014 16:09)DavidL Wrote:  ……………...I'm not yet prepared to go to step 4 of your process and change the album tags for hundreds of album names containing numbers greater than 9, where this is a differentiator. ……………..

"Step 4 involved adding a single item to a property, not changing hundreds of tags. I'm wondering if we are both looking at the same list of steps."

Sorry my typing error I meant Step 3 here, not 4 i.e. I did 1,2, 4 & 5 and omitted 3.

"I'm not sure how you are getting a different sort order in iTunes from the alphabetical sort order that I am seeing. I am using iTunes on Windows. Could this make a difference?"

Are you saying iTunes on Windows gives the erroneous alphabetical sort: 1,10,11,2,3 etc?

David

System: ALAC iTunes library on Synology DS412+ (running MinimServer) > Airport Extreme bridge > Optical isolation > dCS Network Bridge (controlled by Galaxy Tab S2 tablet running BubbleUPnP&Mosaic) > PS Audio DirectStream DAC > Primare A60 > Harbeth SHL5plus 40th Anniversary model
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply 


Forum Jump:


User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)