Tagging classical music

[Dieter Stockert]

(01-04-2014 14:10)bbrip Wrote:  As you say, its a matter of the right balance between pragmatism and perfection. I've given up trying to be perfect just costs me too much time.

It's the same like in the 'real life'.

[Alpina_Lux]

I have done a bit of research on this subject, and found that MusiCHI actually has some kind of blog on which a few articles on how to tag classical music have been published.

Now, I am in no way affiliated with that product, but I believe that a lot of the advice given on that blog applies to anyone who approaches the task of ripping and tagging his classical music collection. I think it contains quite a few useful tips, and is also well written IMO.

The first part can be found under this link:

click on this link

[Alpina_Lux]

I. The Zen of Classical Music Tagging (Part1): The anatomy of a composition

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click on this link
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II. The Zen of Classical Music Tagging (Part 2) with the MusiCHI music system

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click on this link
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[Alpina_Lux]

III. The Zen of Classical Music Tagging (Part 3): How to write albums and compositions

click on this link

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IV. The Zen of Classical Music Tagging (Part 4): The case for a separate “Opus” or “Catalog Number” tag

click on this link

[simoncn]

(10-04-2014 18:14)Alpina_Lux Wrote:  I have therefor started to post the content of that blog herebelow, and hope that this does not infringe any copyright stuff or hurt anyone's sensibilities as it is not directly connected to MinimServer.

Thanks for this pointer.

I don't think it's a good idea to copy large amounts of material from another site into this forum. It would be better to post a link to the original source of the material.

[Gonzalez]

(10-04-2014 18:55)simoncn Wrote:  

(10-04-2014 18:14)Alpina_Lux Wrote:  I have therefor started to post the content of that blog herebelow, and hope that this does not infringe any copyright stuff or hurt anyone's sensibilities as it is not directly connected to MinimServer.

Thanks for this pointer.

I don't think it's a good idea to copy large amounts of material from another site into this forum. It would be better to post a link to the original source of the material.

I absolutely second that!

[Alpina_Lux]

(10-04-2014 18:55)simoncn Wrote:  

(10-04-2014 18:14)Alpina_Lux Wrote:  I have therefor started to post the content of that blog herebelow, and hope that this does not infringe any copyright stuff or hurt anyone's sensibilities as it is not directly connected to MinimServer.

Thanks for this pointer.

I don't think it's a good idea to copy large amounts of material from another site into this forum. It would be better to post a link to the original source of the material.

I have updated all posts with the following:

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Please note that the following advice has been taken from the blog on the MusiCHI website: MusiCHI - Blog
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I believe that the blog entries contain very valuable information on how to go about tagging classical music. I also believe that a lot of people (me included) would benefit greatly from it. On the MusiCHI - website or by a research on the internet it is rather difficult to find, whereas on this forum and in this particular thread we have a discussion that is dedicated to just this subject.

I think I have disclosed the source of the material in a transparent fashion; I would even expect that the person who wrote it welcomes a discussion about this subject in a specialised forum.

[simoncn]

(11-04-2014 08:32)Alpina_Lux Wrote:  I have updated all posts with the following:

---
Please note that the following advice has been taken from the blog on the MusiCHI website: MusiCHI - Blog
---

I believe that the blog entries contain very valuable information on how to go about tagging classical music. I also believe that a lot of people (me included) would benefit greatly from it. On the MusiCHI - website or by a research on the internet it is rather difficult to find, whereas on this forum and in this particular thread we have a discussion that is dedicated to just this subject.

I think I have disclosed the source of the material in a transparent fashion; I would even expect that the person who wrote it welcomes a discussion about this subject in a specialised forum.

My concern about copying this material wasn't about failing to disclose attribution. I think you made the attribution clear in your original post.

I don't think it is appropriate to copy large amounts of material from any other source into a thread in this forum. The makes the thread difficult to read and follow. If the material is readily available on another website, it is better to post a link to the original source of the material. This doesn't in any way prevent discussions about the material on this forum.

I would appreciate it if you would modify your previous posts to use links, for example:

The Zen of Classical Music Tagging (Part 3): How to write albums and compositions

The Zen of Classical Music Tagging (Part 4): The case for a separate “Opus” or “Catalog Number” tag

[DavidHB]

Leaving aside Simon's suggestion that the quoted text in Alpina_Lux's long posts be replaced with links (a suggestion with which I very much agree), there are points to be made about the material itself, which seems to me to sit uncomfortably with much of what has said elsewhere in this thread.

Firstly, while I cannot claim to have absorbed completely all the material in these very long posts, its very length and obvious complexity creates the danger that beginners will be put off the whole tagging process. I have already argued that we should not allow tagging schemes to become over complex, or routinely enter data that will not be used either in the browsing process or displayed by the control point. Those points seem relevant here.

Second, the use of the word 'Zen' in the titles of the quoted material suggests that there is some sort of 'perfect' or ultimate tagging scheme. Along with others who have posted here, I just do not believe that this is the case. I hope that much of the value of this hobby, for others as it has been for me, lies in finding new ways of exploring one's music collection; that implies that tagging schemes may evolve over time, and there are many enjoyable paths one can follow. Maybe aiming from the outset for a complex, quasi-academic 'Zen' scheme suits some people; if so, well and good. But others who have posted here have made it clear that this is not the only way to go.

Thirdly, what we have come to call (for want of a better term) 'classical' music resolutely defies the kind of tightly drawn system of classification outlined in the quoted material, which is based (perhaps unsurprisingly, given its origins) on the received canon of German and German-influenced music from, say, 1770 to 1940. For different reasons, many other strands of the classical repertoire (think Buxtehude, Chopin or Villa-Lobos) fit uncomfortably or not at all into that scheme. When it comes to tagging schemes, systems of categorisation and sub-categorisation are perhaps better avoided, especially by new users of networked music systems.

Finally, the determined (and, dare one say, sniffily arrogant) rejection in the quoted material of the file system as a means of organising and accessing music files fails to take account of certain realities. The file system is always there; it is all that is available when metadata is not present. The file system has to be used to access files for metadata editing. And file and folder names are, in themselves, another form of metadata, albeit one that is somewhat differently entered and accessed from 'normal' metadata. Personally, I think that folder view is a very good way for beginners to access their music libraries, especially when folders are organised in a way with which the user is already familiar. If my own experience is anything to go by, users will tend to move away from folder view to more index-based browsing as more of their files are tagged. But we should not regard the file system and tagging/indexing as substitutes for each other; they are, of necessity, complementary.

David

[Alpina_Lux]

(11-04-2014 09:39)simoncn Wrote:  My concern about copying this material wasn't about failing to disclose attribution. I think you made the attribution clear in your original post.

I don't think it is appropriate to copy large amounts of material from any other source into a thread in this forum. The makes the thread difficult to read and follow.

I don't agree with this, but it's obviously your forum so I will follow your request.

I believe the material copied in here was much easier to read than the blog which is - as a blog - more confusing and not ordered in any way (as there are also lots of other announcements pertaining to the MusiCHI software which have nothing to do with tagging classical music).

I simply wanted to be helpful by including something in this discussion which I believe worthwhile to consider.

(11-04-2014 09:39)simoncn Wrote:  If the material is readily available on another website, it is better to post a link to the original source of the material. This doesn't in any way prevent discussions about the material on this forum.

I would appreciate it if you would modify your previous posts to use links, for example:

The Zen of Classical Music Tagging (Part 3): How to write albums and compositions

The Zen of Classical Music Tagging (Part 4): The case for a separate “Opus” or “Catalog Number” tag

Done.