Linn Kazoo

[DavidHB]

(12-05-2014 11:01)bbrip Wrote:  The matrix shows up but there are no tracks showing when using MinimServer. Its been reported, so there should be a fix in one of the upcoming nightly's.

I have just installed the latest nightly (4.0.443 on Windows). Tracks show up when you click on an album in the matrix, and Minimserver listings by group and/or disc number appear to be fully respected.

I find the matrix quite usable, which is more than can be said for its counterpart in some other programs. It is also good to see a search box, albeit marked 'not available'. Will we ever see UPnP Search in Kazoo, I wonder?

David

[bbrip]

4.0.443 for IOS is still broken. No tracks.

[Peter@57m]

(12-05-2014 11:29)DavidHB Wrote:  

(12-05-2014 11:01)bbrip Wrote:  The matrix shows up but there are no tracks showing when using MinimServer. Its been reported, so there should be a fix in one of the upcoming nightly's.

I have just installed the latest nightly (4.0.443 on Windows). Tracks show up when you click on an album in the matrix, and Minimserver listings by group and/or disc number appear to be fully respected.

I find the matrix quite usable, which is more than can be said for its counterpart in some other programs. It is also good to see a search box, albeit marked 'not available'. Will we ever see UPnP Search in Kazoo, I wonder?

David

The latest nightly build on Windows and OSX its fine, the list issue is only with IOS.

I am hopeful for Kazoo, its still early days. Its been a while coming but that always seems to be the way with software (says someone who worked in IT for 40 years)

Looking forward to the Android version being made available. But that will likely be some way off. They will most probably iron out most of the bugs before doing a port to Android.

[simoncn]

(09-05-2014 20:41)Peter@57m Wrote:  The latest beta nightly build of Kazoo has the matrix album display available when using MinimServer. Previously this was only available with KazooServer.

I've tried this using Kazoo for Windows and it works for me.

It seems to me that the only benefit of using Kazoo with MinimServer instead of Kinsky with MinimServer (both on Windows) is the high-resolution artwork in the "matrix" view. (The equivalent Kinsky display has fuzzy images.) Am I missing something?

[bbrip]

Simon, this is what I ask myself. I have posted on the Linn board that KAZOO to me is just a Kinsky with slightly better looks. I am completely missing any slightly more advanced feature in KAZOO than just what every 5 year old Control point can do. Puzzles me but may be the Linn folks still keep all those really fancy pink rabbits in their cylinder

bb

[Peter@57m]

Kinsky on IOS (or Android) did not have the matrix view that is available with Windows. So Kazoo is making this available on an iPad for the first time.
I have a particular reason for liking Kazoo which is to do with the discovery issues I have using Kinsky and Lumin on iPad. As I have posted before, I frequently find they don't show MinimServer on my QNAP as an available music server. I have to restart Kinsky or Lumin multiple times to get MinimServer to show up. Also happens on Windows and Android.
To date, Kazoo has always shown MinimServer ( I am not using KazooServer).

So for me plus points for Kazoo are the matrix on iPad and that it always finds MinimServer. I believe one of the design objectives for Kazoo was to have a common code base across platforms. So I will be able to get the same functionality on Windows, IOS and Android (eventually)

[bbrip]

(13-05-2014 10:37)Peter@57m Wrote:  Kinsky on IOS (or Android) did not have the matrix view that is available with Windows. So Kazoo is making this available on an iPad for the first time.

I hear you Peter, but other CPs have had this for ages So they played catch-up on ONE feature after a loooong journey. Congrats

NB: You still cant change the size of the tiles using swipe or pinch gestures... Others have that and more. I do like the sound of my Linn System but their CP efforts are (and have been) appalling and not worthy of a high end system. My Linn dealer knows my views but his influence in Scotland is limited.

[Peter@57m]

(13-05-2014 12:10)bbrip Wrote:  

(13-05-2014 10:37)Peter@57m Wrote:  Kinsky on IOS (or Android) did not have the matrix view that is available with Windows. So Kazoo is making this available on an iPad for the first time.

I hear you Peter, but other CPs have had this for ages So they played catch-up on ONE feature after a loooong journey. Congrats

NB: You still cant change the size of the tiles using swipe or pinch gestures... Others have that and more. I do like the sound of my Linn System but their CP efforts are (and have been) appalling and not worthy of a high end system. My Linn dealer knows my views but his influence in Scotland is limited.

Oh I agree - its got a long way to go before its class leading.
However in my peculiar network environment, I have problems with Lumin which would be my preferred CP otherwise.

So I am happy using Kazoo as it works and look forward to improvements.

Considering the cost of Linn systems, I find it appalling that a new user is presented with Kinsky as the interface. Image you have just bought Klimax Exakt for £50K with superb sound and looks and then you get Kinsky on iPad to control it......

[DavidHB]

(12-05-2014 22:01)simoncn Wrote:  It seems to me that the only benefit of using Kazoo with MinimServer instead of Kinsky with MinimServer (both on Windows) is the high-resolution artwork in the "matrix" view. (The equivalent Kinsky display has fuzzy images.) Am I missing something?

The improvements in Kazoo over Kinsky, as I see them, are

• the abandonment of the columnar layout which makes Kinsky, quite literally, a waste of space;
• the fact that the playlist is only visible when you want it;
• better playlist editing (though I am waiting to see if any Android version has better playlist editing than its Kinsky counterpart, which is a mess);
• a 'Now Playing' screen with transport controls and next track information;
• a somewhat tidier layout.

But, compared with, say, Bubble DS, Kazoo is less intuitive, because it uses a different method to access each feature. The tabbed page layout used by Bubble (and MininServer/MinimWatch) is hardly cutting edge programming, but it is consistent, and therefore both functional and intuitive.

Neither Kazoo nor Kinsky is my favourite control point. But I don't think I'd go along with the completely damning comments that others have made. As several reviewers have said of Kinsky, the functionality may be basic by some standards, but the software at least works reliably, on multiple platforms. I would still be interested to know how competing control points on iOS (to which I do not have regular access) compare with the Linn applications.

David

[DavidHB]

Since writing my previous post, I have realised that I missed the implications of the words 'with MinimServer' in what Simon had written. It is natural for contributors to this forum to think of Kazoo simply as a Control Point; when we have MinimServer, why would one take any interest in Kazoo Server? The answer is that Linn seems to regard the Control Point and the Server as symbiotic parts of a whole, and that the significance (for good or ill) of what Linn is doing in this area is only understood when one uses the two together. This I have now done.

The best I can say of the "combined Kazoo" user experience is that it is somewhat better than DNLA. Linn have clearly committed themselves to using the ohMedia standard as the basis for Kazoo, but AFAIK they are the only major equipment manufacturer to do so; all the big players seem totally committed to DNLA with its (from their perspective) convenient limitations.

The following passage from the description of ohMedia on the OpenHome website lets the cat out of the bag:

"UPnP forum services have large numbers of optional features. While this makes it easy for device manufacturers to implement a service, it is hard to write control points and interoperability between devices becomes poor. ohMedia uses options sparingly, typically at a service level. This enables clear, consistent behaviour across devices from different manufacturers."

This says, in effect, that, from the user perspective, ohMedia is another variation on the DNLA theme of impoverishing the user experience in the interest of compatibility (which, with only one manufacturer using the ohMedia standard, is a bit of a moot point in any case). Admittedly, as implemented in Kazoo, ohMedia does provide rather more for classical music listeners than an ordinary DNLA server, but switch back to MinimServer and it is clear just how limited the Kazoo Server support for browsing classical music actually is. Essentially, all you have is a limited, static browse tree, rather than the configurable and dynamic browse paths available in MinimServer. The speed with which Kazoo serves album art thumbnails on my Windows machine is impressive, but is hardly compensation for the poor browsing experience.

The one area where the Kazoo combination does acquit itself rather well is Search. I seem to recall reading a post by Simon (perhaps on another forum) in which he indicates that the search function is implemented via ohMedia (i.e. currently only in Kazoo Server) rather than by UPnP, and this presumably explains why Kazoo search does not work with MinimServer. The search is dynamic and very quick, and more tags are searched than in any UPnP control point I have used. Is there any chance that MinimServer could implement the ohMedia Search protocol? This would considerably improve the user experience of Kazoo with MinimServer.

It will be clear that I won't be using Kazoo Server on a regular basis any time soon (though I shall continue to use Kazoo CP on Windows), and it would be interesting to know whether other members of this forum take the same view. But we have to expect that, once a production version of the Kazoo package is released, it will be touted to and by Linn dealers, and will find its way on to ripping NAS boxes. It still surprises me that there are dealers who are at the top of their game when it comes to advising on hardware but who are just not very software savvy. My own dealer, an inveterate experimenter, surprised me only yesterday when he told me that he had not even tried MinimServer ...

David