Restriction of BBC Radio HLS/DASH to authorised third parties

[tommyrot]

(27-10-2023 11:22)captainkev Wrote:  Only just stumbled on this thread today when my beloved 6Music stopped working through Minimstreamer.

I'll be submitting a complaint to the BBC and to Ofcom. First the BBC withdrew its stations from TuneIn and the like, and now they've cut off the feed to Minimserver. So I now have 6 Yamaha Musiccast devices that (as far as I know) can't play BBC radio streams at all. If I use BBC Sounds app, I can only cast to a Chromecast - the BBC promised to enable other devices in addition to Chromecast, but has failed to do so and has since removed any mention of doing this.

Not only have they left a whole bunch of people unable to listen and with obsolete equipment, they're also trying to quash one of the very few true independent (UK-based) innovators in the area (Simon). They should be supporting people like Simon so they can be included in any changes, not locking them out.

I wholeheartedly agree. Though I think even more could be achieved through united efforts. The BBC just won't listen without some level of coordinated effort on the part of audio industry leaders and consumers who're affected by this. If Simon and his counterparts, for instance, formed a collective to represent the industry and userbase, contacted the BBC's Media Show, Feedback show and News team, the topic might achieve the sort of press coverage and oxygen that might make the BBC Sounds team reflect.

We're reasonable people who understand the BBC's objectives. The central aim seems to be for (approved) stream providers to distribute audio feeds that do not reveal the underlying URLs. This can be achieved in media servers like MinimStreamer by having fixed playlists/channels where the users don't even have to create .m3u files at all. They could just browse the MinimServer tree and save/bookmark/pin them as radio stations. Naim has become an approved stream provider and do exactly this. (I happen to be a Naim user, too.) You browse iRadio on the controller app, scroll through preset/available stations and save them / play them.

[MarmiteSandwich]

Simon - is there some way that we can get lower bitrate streams from the BBC in the interim, until things change for the better? I have searched the documentation without any luck, for clues about this. Non-UK listeners did used to get something like this, didn't they? Right now I am forced to listen to ABC Classic from Australia at 64k aac!
Marmite

[simoncn]

The change to authenticated streams affects all BBC streams worldwide at all bitrates except for BBC World Service.

[ceejayemm]

Hi

If it helps the BBC streams at:

https://gist.github.com/bpsib/67089b959e...a59ad74bc3

still seem to be working for me.

Chris

[FakePlasticDunk]

(27-10-2023 15:58)ceejayemm Wrote:  Hi

If it helps the BBC streams at:

<redacted>

still seem to be working for me.

Chris

Just to reiterate, the BBC are known to be monitoring this thread, so your post might be the proverbial kiss of death.

[ceejayemm]

Oops - Sorry!

[malkit]

I’ve just become aware of this situation today having come on the forum to look for an explanation as to why all my streams (VLC on iphone at work and minimstreamer on Melco at home) stopped working this week and as dedicated BBC radio listener and license fee payer I’m furious.
Since when has it been the job of the BBC to dictate to licence fee payer’s how and on what equipment they can access content my understanding was that the ethos was that BBC output was made to be universally available for the benefit of the UK population now they are increasingly acting like some kind of greedy silicone valley streaming service, log ins accounts and now these further restrictions. The BBC is not a for profit business and shouldn’t be run as one as it increasingly is.
There own mission statement begins “to act in the public interest, serving all audiences” surely placing restrictions such as these on accessing their output is in direct contradiction of this statement?
I’ve always been a staunch supporter of the BBC especially in this last decade when they seem to have been under continuous attack by the ever changing iterations of the UK government but they are making it increasingly difficult.
Perhaps this is the intent?

[rich28]

(27-10-2023 15:58)ceejayemm Wrote:  Hi

If it helps the BBC streams at:

https://gist.github.com/bpsib/67089b959e...a59ad74bc3

still seem to be working for me.

Chris

Yep, the BBC may well be monitoring this thread – hopefully they are not least because of their supposed requirement of acting in the public interest. But big thanks Chris for sharing that info. It seems all the streams listed under "BBC-Radio-HLS-UK.m3u" work. And better still, if like me you’re in the UK, 320k playback should be achievable by replacing ‘96000’ with ‘320000’ .

[nickc]

I too have just come to this thread, today providing my first opportunity to investigate why I could no longer access BBC Radio 3 via MininStreamer/MinimServer. The latter having proved so reliable month after month, year after year, I spent a long time troubleshooting my home network and its multiple devices before finally turning to MS/MS themselves, and arriving here to learn the problem is actually with the BBC. How despicable of them!

Fortunately, I can still listen via the 'Sounds' website on the RaspberryPi which runs MS/MS. This was always my backup when things occasionally went wrong on my default setup (MS/MS on the Rpi, serving to Volumio on another Rpi, with BubbleUPnP as controller). It's a pain having to go back to using a browser as control, but at least it works, and with VNC I can use Android phone, tablet or my PC to access Chrome on the Rpi remotely. But I lament losing the seamless ease and reliability of MS/MS for my radio listening. I'm sure if a solution is possible, Simon will find it. I'm hugely grateful to him and all who have posted on this thread for clarifying what's happened and investigating possible ways forward. Time to start monitoring the forum on a daily basis again!

[tommyrot]

I’m reminded that this is a forum is to resolve issues and that by opining too much runs the risk of this forum becoming a Speakers’ Corner for the intemperate. So, I’ll try to give that a wide berth. But cold data dictates the agenda today at BBC Sounds.

I’m pro-data and support evidence-based decisions. But that means using data to inform judgement, not using data to remove judgement from decision-making. I think the BBC are aping some of the same follies of other big media organisations today. They force listening habits and construct mega infrastructures to mine listening/viewing data hoping to gain mystical insights, but it’s the human judgement that follows that is essential (and so often lacking today). Execs attribute such importance to data as to replace human judgement from decision-making. This is no accident. This approach de-risks their decisions and keeps execs in post, buffering them from any potential failures, but at the same time, it evaporates those unlikely successes. It’s remarkable when you look back how short-sighted this is across TV, radio and publishing. Countless cultural TV, Radio and literary classics were approved by heretical execs with an appetite to take creative risks; and many started out enjoying only modest numbers. These include TV/Radio classics such as Only Fools and Horses, A Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy, Monty Python, The Young Ones etc. In the hands of today’s risk-averse, data-reliant execs, these wouldn’t have been commissioned at all and if they had, might have been ended prematurely.

Alison Winters and Ben Chapman take note.