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stampie · 04-05-2013, 18:18

Album art: This may not have any bearing, but just in case... nStream looks for Folder.jpg file in directory rather then embedded images in the music files. I believe this differs from the order in which Minimserver looks for Album art.

All my music files have both embedded art and folder.jpg

simoncn · 05-05-2013, 22:11

(04-05-2013 17:43)stampie Wrote: Thanks Simon; here's a quick update on how I have got on:-
1. Album Art - I don't pretend to understand the details discussed since your response, so I can only describe the behaviour I see when using different Media Servers. With the Synology Media Server I can select a device specific profile of "Default with Original Cover" and I get the full album art with no lag at all (in displaying the art) when scrolling through album list in n-Stream. I think this is particular to how n-Stream is caching, because if I use PlugPlayer as my CP, there is a lag.

However, with Minimserver it doesn't look like the images are being cached in n-Stream at all, so I guess there must be something different in how the images are sent, received and processed by n-Stream (between the Synology and Minimserver).

Don't know if this helps anyone - happy to try out more servers/CP if that would help

Thanks for explaining this. I think you're right that there is a difference in how the images are sent, but unfortunately it's difficult for me to track down what this difference is because I don't have a Synology NAS and therefore can't try the Synology Media Server. What are the filetypes of your audio files?

Quote:4. all.sortValue.ignoreThe - I thought you might find the response from Naim interesting (thanks to Naim for quick response)

Naim stated that if I enabled 'UPNP compatibility mode' then 'The' would be ignored. However, this would result in the loss of some CP functionality (mainly queuing and playlist support within n-Stream), which is not acceptable to me.

I replied asking 'Why wouldn’t Naim want to provide this option outside of compatibility mode?', to which they replied 'We don’t implement the “Ignore A and The” option – that’s implemented by the UPnP server itself. There is no setting for this that can be passed over the UPnP protocol – it’s simply a function of the UPnP server and how it sorts it’s lists."

I find this response confusing to be honest - can anyone else make sense of it?

It is confusing, and it seems Naim have misunderstood your question. They seem to think you are asking for the control point to provide a custom sorting option. Can you explain to them you just want the control point to preserve any custom list sorting order that the server has already done?

Quote:5. Distinguishing singles - not tried this yet; I was wondering if I can exclude the Singles from the main Album list once I have done this? Any thoughts appreciated

If you remove the Album tag from your singles, they won't show up in the Album list.

Quote:Apols for the long post and thanks for everyone's help!

Nick

You're very welcome!

simoncn · 05-05-2013, 22:18

(04-05-2013 18:18)stampie Wrote: Album art: This may not have any bearing, but just in case... nStream looks for Folder.jpg file in directory rather then embedded images in the music files. I believe this differs from the order in which Minimserver looks for Album art.

All my music files have both embedded art and folder.jpg

It is the server that decides whether to look for embedded art or a Folder.jpg file, not the control point. The control point wouldn't know that a Folder.jpg file exists unless the server has sent this information to the control point in an <albumArtURI> tag. Where did you find something saying that nStream looks for Folder.jpg files in preference to embedded artwork?

Are your embedded images and Folder.jpg files identical? If so, it shouldn't matter which one is used. If they are different, what is the difference?

stampie · 06-05-2013, 22:02

(05-05-2013 22:11)simoncn Wrote:
(04-05-2013 17:43)stampie Wrote: Thanks Simon; here's a quick update on how I have got on:-
1. Album Art - I don't pretend to understand the details discussed since your response, so I can only describe the behaviour I see when using different Media Servers. With the Synology Media Server I can select a device specific profile of "Default with Original Cover" and I get the full album art with no lag at all (in displaying the art) when scrolling through album list in n-Stream. I think this is particular to how n-Stream is caching, because if I use PlugPlayer as my CP, there is a lag.

However, with Minimserver it doesn't look like the images are being cached in n-Stream at all, so I guess there must be something different in how the images are sent, received and processed by n-Stream (between the Synology and Minimserver).

Don't know if this helps anyone - happy to try out more servers/CP if that would help

Thanks for explaining this. I think you're right that there is a difference in how the images are sent, but unfortunately it's difficult for me to track down what this difference is because I don't have a Synology NAS and therefore can't try the Synology Media Server. What are the filetypes of your audio files?

I'm using FLAC files. I also tried Plex, Serviio, and Logitech Media Server on the Synology - n-Stream caches images for all of them (although some seem to reduce the image quality). Hopefully, you can take a look at them and see what their approach is.

Quote:4. all.sortValue.ignoreThe - I thought you might find the response from Naim interesting (thanks to Naim for quick response)

Naim stated that if I enabled 'UPNP compatibility mode' then 'The' would be ignored. However, this would result in the loss of some CP functionality (mainly queuing and playlist support within n-Stream), which is not acceptable to me.

I replied asking 'Why wouldn’t Naim want to provide this option outside of compatibility mode?', to which they replied 'We don’t implement the “Ignore A and The” option – that’s implemented by the UPnP server itself. There is no setting for this that can be passed over the UPnP protocol – it’s simply a function of the UPnP server and how it sorts it’s lists."

I find this response confusing to be honest - can anyone else make sense of it?

It is confusing, and it seems Naim have misunderstood your question. They seem to think you are asking for the control point to provide a custom sorting option. Can you explain to them you just want the control point to preserve any custom list sorting order that the server has already done?

I've emailed them and will let you know how they respond

Quote:5. Distinguishing singles - not tried this yet; I was wondering if I can exclude the Singles from the main Album list once I have done this? Any thoughts appreciated

If you remove the Album tag from your singles, they won't show up in the Album list.

thanks

stampie Wrote: Album art: This may not have any bearing, but just in case... nStream looks for Folder.jpg file in directory rather then embedded images in the music files. I believe this differs from the order in which Minimserver looks for Album art.

All my music files have both embedded art and folder.jpg

simoncn Wrote:
It is the server that decides whether to look for embedded art or a Folder.jpg file, not the control point. The control point wouldn't know that a Folder.jpg file exists unless the server has sent this information to the control point in an <albumArtURI> tag. Where did you find something saying that nStream looks for Folder.jpg files in preference to embedded artwork?

Are your embedded images and Folder.jpg files identical? If so, it shouldn't matter which one is used. If they are different, what is the difference?
[quote]

My embedded images are the same as the as the Folder.jpg files

simoncn · 08-05-2013, 10:32

(06-05-2013 22:02)stampie Wrote: I'm using FLAC files. I also tried Plex, Serviio, and Logitech Media Server on the Synology - n-Stream caches images for all of them (although some seem to reduce the image quality). Hopefully, you can take a look at them and see what their approach is.

I've tried Serviio and Plex, and I've looked at the data they are returning. Based on this, my best guess is that n-stream requires DLNA profile information to be sent with album art URIs to enable caching.

MinimServer 0.72 supports sending DLNA profile information with album art URIs in the following cases:
1) Album art images embedded in MP3 files
2) Album art images embedded in AIFF files
3) Album art images in standalone Folder.jpg or Folder.png files

In your case, MinimServer is using the album art images embedded in your FLAC files in preference to your separate Folder.jpg files, and these embedded images are being sent without DLNA profile information.

As a test to confirm whether this is the cause of the problem, could you try either adding an album in MP3 or AIFF format, or removing embedded album art from one of your FLAC albums? This should cause MinimServer to send DLNA profile information with album art URIs for that album.

stampie · 08-05-2013, 12:49

(08-05-2013 10:32)simoncn Wrote:
(06-05-2013 22:02)stampie Wrote: I'm using FLAC files. I also tried Plex, Serviio, and Logitech Media Server on the Synology - n-Stream caches images for all of them (although some seem to reduce the image quality). Hopefully, you can take a look at them and see what their approach is.

I've tried Serviio and Plex, and I've looked at the data they are returning. Based on this, my best guess is that n-stream requires DLNA profile information to be sent with album art URIs to enable caching.

MinimServer 0.72 supports sending DLNA profile information with album art URIs in the following cases:
1) Album art images embedded in MP3 files
2) Album art images embedded in AIFF files
3) Album art images in standalone Folder.jpg or Folder.png files

In your case, MinimServer is using the album art images embedded in your FLAC files in preference to your separate Folder.jpg files, and these embedded images are being sent without DLNA profile information.

As a test to confirm whether this is the cause of the problem, could you try either adding an album in MP3 or AIFF format, or removing embedded album art from one of your FLAC albums? This should cause MinimServer to send DLNA profile information with album art URIs for that album.

Hi Simon, results as follows:

(Used two albums to test, both with 600*600 art c. 200kb in size)

(Current) FLAC files with embedded art + Folder.jpg = NOT cached
FLAC files with embedded art (NO Folder.jpg) = NOT cached
FLAC files NO embedded art + Folder.jpg = cached
MP3 files with embedded art + Folder.jpg = NOT cached
MP3 files NO embedded art + Folder.jpg = cached

I also tested the same files with no images at all; as expected no images are shown in n-Stream.

I cleared the cache between each test and then re-checked once I had set it all back to confirm original behaviour still occurring.

Hope this helps!?
Nick

simoncn · 08-05-2013, 19:27

(08-05-2013 12:49)stampie Wrote: Hi Simon, results as follows:

(Used two albums to test, both with 600*600 art c. 200kb in size)

(Current) FLAC files with embedded art + Folder.jpg = NOT cached
FLAC files with embedded art (NO Folder.jpg) = NOT cached
FLAC files NO embedded art + Folder.jpg = cached
MP3 files with embedded art + Folder.jpg = NOT cached
MP3 files NO embedded art + Folder.jpg = cached

I also tested the same files with no images at all; as expected no images are shown in n-Stream.

I cleared the cache between each test and then re-checked once I had set it all back to confirm original behaviour still occurring.

Hope this helps!?
Nick

As discussed by PM (and posted here for the benefit of other forum readers), this problem is caused by MinimServer creating album art URIs for embedded album art that are longer than some limit imposed by n-stream for caching. I'll contact Naim to see what they say about this.

kirkpg · 10-06-2013, 22:36

I thought I might tag on to this thread since my question concerns nStream compatibility mode. The nStream app has 2 options: one is compatibility mode off which provides some of the features mentioned earlier (set up a queue or create a playlist), the second is UPnP compatibility mode on which loses those features and the app looks like playing a CD. The difference I found is that with compatibility mode off albums are listed with album name and composer (if that is in the metadata) rather than artist. When compatibility mode is on then albums list as album title and artist. I have a lot of albums where performers cover other artists and thus somewhat confusing. I emailed Naim and below is their response. I must state I do not understand the nuance and I have no experience in writing some of the commands listed earlier in this post.

"The ability of n-Stream to show the correct Album/Artist properties is entirely up to how your UPnP server is set up - we do not index the files on the NDX - that is done by the UPnP server so is everything that you see on your NDX display, in Compatibility Mode n-Stream reads from the information sent to the NDX from UPnP, with compatibility mode off, the n-Stream app is being the UPnP control point to read directly, does your UPnP have a Folder View option?"

Naim has been very responsive to my questions but I do not understand much about this field. I was just wondering if there is something I can do in Minimserve to leave compatibility mode off and see the artist with the album rather than the composer.

Otherwise this appears to be the best UPnP server that I have tried to use. I have it installed on a QNAP 219. I rip all my CD's via XLD to AIFF and store in iTunes (which I use to stream to the rest of the house just not my main Naim system).

Thanks

simoncn · 10-06-2013, 23:15

(10-06-2013 22:36)kirkpg Wrote: Naim has been very responsive to my questions but I do not understand much about this field. I was just wondering if there is something I can do in Minimserve to leave compatibility mode off and see the artist with the album rather than the composer.

Please try changing the following setting in the tagCustom property on the Advanced page:

Composer.displayRole={artist}

to the value:

Composer.displayRole={author}

and restart MinimServer.

If this doesn't solve the problem, please change this to:

Composer.displayRole={}

and restart MinimServer.

Please let me know what difference (if any) these changes make.

Quote:Otherwise this appears to be the best UPnP server that I have tried to use. I have it installed on a QNAP 219. I rip all my CD's via XLD to AIFF and store in iTunes (which I use to stream to the rest of the house just not my main Naim system).

Thanks very much!

stampie · 11-06-2013, 12:41

(10-06-2013 23:15)simoncn Wrote:
(10-06-2013 22:36)kirkpg Wrote: Naim has been very responsive to my questions but I do not understand much about this field. I was just wondering if there is something I can do in Minimserve to leave compatibility mode off and see the artist with the album rather than the composer.

Please try changing the following setting in the tagCustom property on the Advanced page:

Composer.displayRole={artist}

to the value:

Composer.displayRole={author}

and restart MinimServer.

If this doesn't solve the problem, please change this to:

Composer.displayRole={}

and restart MinimServer.

Please let me know what difference (if any) these changes make.

Quote:Otherwise this appears to be the best UPnP server that I have tried to use. I have it installed on a QNAP 219. I rip all my CD's via XLD to AIFF and store in iTunes (which I use to stream to the rest of the house just not my main Naim system).

Thanks very much!

"Composer.displayRole={author}" - this works for me with compatibility mode set to Off.
Nick