Minim server + Synology NAS kills custom dedicated pc on music sound quality

[jvilly]

(17-11-2013 19:09)sleask Wrote:  DavidHb, I don't know why either and i don't think we will find out, so i'll take your reason, lol, so i can drop this task of "why" and just start enjoying music again, as posted in the ps forum i did "temporarily" purchase the DS412+ for further testing, please forgive me but i'm just going to copy and paste, i'm exhausted after all the testing and thinking.
. As far as performance goes you don’t need the higher end models, I did compare the 213+ with the 412+, I did prefer the 213+ buy a margin but it could be a “break in” factor, the 412+ was newer. (I did run the unit hard for two hours before running the tests).
As far as raid goes, I have read many times not to run the ssd’s in raid, double the write times = half the life of the drive. Also, my buddy at the computer store said if you’re not running raid in the nas you can install any dive you want, the compatibility is only for the raid function. I have about 1000 albums all in flac, this is about 439gig, but, I’m sitting here thinking before I go buy a large ssd, do I really need the whole collection for serious listening? Not at all, I’m sure I won’t listen to 80% of it. BUT what if I rerip everything to wav, oh the pain, the biggest factor is I’m male and don’t think very rational so I will probably go for the 1 tb.

My conclusion is ,
Does the nas sound better than the pc, absolutely
Is the nas a cheaper route than a high end pc, absolutely
Do you need the top of the line model with all the power, “for audio”, absolutely not.

there is one other thread going at ps on this at http://www.psaudio.com/forum/#/discussio...s713-drive

just a note on the system resources, if you go into the process tab,and watch you will see that the process monitor itself is peaking upto 2.2% at times, i'm gessing it's java you want to watch, so the minim server is even lower than reported(the higher peaks)
Again great job Simon!
Linn_agnostik, thank you for the suggestion, i will try all the settings

steve

I am just curious about several things, what if you use a QNAP, and what if you use a heavier spec NAS? (i3 or Dual Core) or take a Single Bay version of the Synology?. Reason is that I have an old TS410 by QNAP and it is quite slow for a lot of tasks involving Python scripts. So I am considering upgrading to a single slot / dual slot NAS for long term.

[sleask]

jvilly-I am just curious about several things, what if you use a QNAP, and what if you use a heavier spec NAS? (i3 or Dual Core) or take a Single Bay version of the Synology?. Reason is that I have an old TS410 by QNAP and it is quite slow for a lot of tasks involving Python scripts. So I am considering upgrading to a single slot / dual slot NAS for long term.

the first nas i purchased for the house was the qnap ts-412, this only had the marvell chip and it was slow. i did return it for the synology ds1512+, personally i wouldn't purchase anything smaller than a dual-core. the more power you have the more options you get with the software, e.g. more decoding, more streaming options.
The ds213+ that i'm using is ONLY for audio, the only thing loaded on the nas is minimserver, after the results i got, i still wouldn't go any lower than a dual core.

[sleask]

DavidHB, Simon, thank you for your input,
i would like to present the differences adding the SSD,
The sound stage is incredible, speakers totally disappeared, separation, dynamics, detail, and not the detail one gets when your ears start to bleed after an half an hour of listening realizing its just the thinning of the music, it is full range and full body.oh, and crystal clear. I am No tech or engineer, not even close but wouldn't timing play a large factor in all this as you suggested?

[sleask]

Yes DavibHB i'm still on the "pesky" why thing. :-)

[best]

I am using a pc as a server. I did comparisons with both a synology and a qnap against my pc
but I found no benefit with regards to improved sound quality with either the synology or the qnap.
I guess this is dependant on the streamer being used? I am using the CH Precision dac with the streaming card.

best

[simoncn]

(19-11-2013 09:01)best Wrote:  I am using a pc as a server. I did comparisons with both a synology and a qnap against my pc
but I found no benefit with regards to improved sound quality with either the synology or the qnap.
I guess this is dependant on the streamer being used? I am using the CH Precision dac with the streaming card.

best

I have used MinimServer on PC (SSD and HDD), Mac (HDD) and various models of NAS (HDD), and I haven't heard any differences in sound quality. I haven't tried SSD in a NAS. My streamer is a Linn DS.

[sleask]

UPDATE, the different brands of SSD's sound different, samsung evo and pro not as good, i'm testing intel now. this is disappointing but i suspected it at the start. the last firmware update for the samsungs is this; - Optimized the noise immunity across the internal memory interfaces, anybody translate this for me? to me noise and memory= not good i have a few people working on the specs between drives at the computer store

[simoncn]

(20-11-2013 02:35)sleask Wrote:  UPDATE, the different brands of SSD's sound different, samsung evo and pro not as good, i'm testing intel now. this is disappointing but i suspected it at the start. the last firmware update for the samsungs is this; - Optimized the noise immunity across the internal memory interfaces, anybody translate this for me? to me noise and memory= not good i have a few people working on the specs between drives at the computer store

I'm finding this very interesting. Please continue to post the results of your testing.

If different SSDs on the server are producing different sound quality on the renderer, I think this suggests there is some issue with interactions between the networking side of the renderer and its audio side.

In more detail: The audio side of the renderer should be completely isolated from its networking side. When a different disk is used on the server, this might cause some difference on the networking side, such as the exact timing of TCP/IP messages. If this networking difference makes a difference to the audio sound quality, this seems to indicate that the renderer's audio side is not completely isolated from its networking side.

[DavidHB]

I share Simon's interest.

In general, noise is that component of a received transmission which is not part of the original signal and is typically unwanted. What this means in the present context rather tests my understanding of semiconductor devices, but I believe that Samsung are claiming that their SSD has improved data accuracy. This could have an impact both on timing within the stream and the need to use error correction systems, both of which (in my understanding at least) can affect perceived sound quality.

I also think that Simon has an interesting point. As I mentioned in my last post, the way that Linn decouple the DAC element of their renderers from the networking side is to lock the stream to what Linn claim is a particularly accurate clock within the DAC. They also make it clear that this approach is not feasible when external devices (e.g. CD players) are digitally connected to a Linn DSM; in such cases the DAC has to use the timing provided by the source. If the PS Audio Bridge is a separate device from their DAC (I know that it is packaged as an add-in board, but the fact that it has its own firmware rather suggests that it is, in effect, a separate device), you can see how the issues that Linn has been addressing might come into play.

The logic of this, as Simon says, is that renderers which insulate the analogue audio from timing and other issues in the digital stream will not produce an audibly different output when the storage medium for the digital source changes. Simon has an Akurate DS; the fact that he has experienced no change in sound quality when steaming media from different storage locations is consistent with Linn's stated design approach.

I look forward to the results of further tests.

David

[sleask]

I will post the results, i did google "noise immunity" my question is how bad was it? and can firmware really fix the problem? and is samsung a good choice for Audio? you can jump over here to see the latest postings http://www.psaudio.com/forum/#/discussio...l-story/p4 sorry about just posting link i had to get to work.