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Budgie · 21-03-2017, 17:05

(18-03-2017 16:55)simoncn Wrote:
(18-03-2017 15:51)Budgie Wrote: Do you wish me to proceed to give you feedback and should I communicate here, pm or email?
Budge
I don't think this thread (titled Tagging classical music) is the best place to discuss problems with using SongKong. A better place would be this thread (titled SongKong).

Reverting to thread topic; in your post at the start of this thread in para 8. you suggest the use of the Group tag and give an example. I have come across a problem for which your proposal appears to offer a possible answer but I cannot think how to make it work in detail.

I have a 50+ set of CDs of all of Bach's cantatas (the Gardiner production,) which have several works on each disk, not in the order of their BWV number. I want to be able to search them by, inter alia, BWV number. Each work may have up to 8 tracks.

I have ripped the disks and saved each disk as a directory with the name in the form Bach_-_Cantatas_[Disk_06]_BWV_72,73,111,156... The individual track files are tagged in a manner similar to your outline but I cannot work out how to be able to present the works for selection on the control point, either as one choice which selects all the tracks in a work or as individual tracks (movements). No "group" menu item offered by BubbleDS and no option to tag "group" in EasyTAG or Puddletag.

Grateful for help in adding these tags and menu items when anybody has time.

simoncn · 21-03-2017, 17:25

See point 9 from my post (Composition tag, or Work if you prefer). This is the best way to index the compostion information such as BWV number. The purpose of the Group tag is to ensure that all tracks that form a composition are presented as a single item when browsing.

Budgie · 22-03-2017, 00:00

(21-03-2017 17:25)simoncn Wrote: See point 9 from my post (Composition tag, or Work if you prefer). This is the best way to index the compostion information such as BWV number. The purpose of the Group tag is to ensure that all tracks that form a composition are presented as a single item when browsing.

Ok so Composition is say BWV_111 and each "movement" is tagged with the same group ID. I am not sure I can discriminate in my mind what is the difference between them. Do you have an example?

I also need to know how to set these tags. I have no means yet for tagging "conductor," "Composition" or "Group" What tag editor do you use to set these tags please?

I assume that Minimsever and Bubbleds can also be made to recognise and present these but first let me get the file tagging right.

Regards,
Budge

simoncn · 22-03-2017, 00:15

(22-03-2017 00:00)Budgie Wrote: Ok so Composition is say BWV_111 and each "movement" is tagged with the same group ID. I am not sure I can discriminate in my mind what is the difference between them. Do you have an example?

They have different purposes although they will often have the same value. As an example of when they might be different, you might have a Composition with a single movement (e.g., Sibelius 7th Symphony) and in this case you would set Composition but you would not set Group because there aren't multiple movements (files) to be grouped together.

Quote:I also need to know how to set these tags. I have no means yet for tagging "conductor," "Composition" or "Group" What tag editor do you use to set these tags please?

I use Mp3tag on Windows. For Mac, Metadatics is good. For Linux, puddletag is good.

Budgie · 22-03-2017, 00:47

(22-03-2017 00:15)simoncn Wrote:
(22-03-2017 00:00)Budgie Wrote: Ok so Composition is say BWV_111 and each "movement" is tagged with the same group ID. I am not sure I can discriminate in my mind what is the difference between them. Do you have an example?

They have different purposes although they will often have the same value. As an example of when they might be different, you might have a Composition with a single movement (e.g., Sibelius 7th Symphony) and in this case you would set Composition but you would not set Group because there aren't multiple movements (files) to be grouped together.

Quote:I also need to know how to set these tags. I have no means yet for tagging "conductor," "Composition" or "Group" What tag editor do you use to set these tags please?

I use Mp3tag on Windows. For Mac, Metadatics is good. For Linux, puddletag is good.

Hi Simon,
Many thanks once more for your reply.

Ok, I understand your example but what would you set in my Bach Cantatas? Would you set composition, group or both?

I already have puddletag and see one can add titles and fields in the Settings>Tag Panel. What I am not sure of is the correct names and syntax for the three additional tags so I can be sure they conform with standards and will work with your program and BubbleDS etc.
What should I add to include conductor, composition and group?

Once I get the additional tags right what should I adjust in minimserver to get it all working?

Time for bed.
Regards,
Budge

Budgie · 22-03-2017, 10:41

(18-03-2017 15:51)Budgie Wrote:
(09-03-2017 11:29)paultaylor Wrote: Hi Budgie in this post https://forum.minimserver.com/showthread.php?tid=3912 Simon introduces SongKong, SongKong automatically tags music very much in the same way as described in Simons schema and in fact Simon has given me valuable feedback to get SongKong to work well with Classical. I would be very interested in getting feedback from MinimServer users, the trial creates a detailed report showing exactly what has been matched and what metadata has been added so you can see if it would work for you.
Hi Paul,
Tried SongKong last night and so far I am not getting on very well. I followed installation instructions for Linux (I am running openSUSE Leap42.2 which is 64 bit, with KDE desktop) and ran the shell script. Seemed to be OK and SongKong v4.6 (Trial) opened a window on my desktop.

My experiences so far:-
1st try the album was not found in musicbrainz or anywhere else.

2nd try with a different album, the album appeared to be found but I was unable to find any screens to compare my present tagging with what is proposed. I had expected to find this but could not open anything.
3rd try with same album and while going through the tabs on Monitor Watch Folder the application crashed with a message to report to you. Sadly I couldn't cut and paste the message so I shall try and replicate. Do you wish me to proceed to give you feedback and should I communicate here, pm or email?
Budge

Hi
Pleased to report I now have full functionality with SongKong. My problem was that browser add-ons such as NoScript were blocking SongKong. I should have seen that before. Duh!

simoncn · 22-03-2017, 22:40

(22-03-2017 00:47)Budgie Wrote: Ok, I understand your example but what would you set in my Bach Cantatas? Would you set composition, group or both?

This is up to you and how you like to browse for music. As you have said in an earlier post that you want to browse for music by the work name (e.g., BWV 111), it would make sense for you to add both Group and Composition (or Work) tags to these files.

My post to which you have been referring was intended as a starting point for discussion, not a set of rules for how people should tag their music. The best way to tag music is to work backwards from how you want to browse and search your library and use tags that best enable you to do that.

Quote:I already have puddletag and see one can add titles and fields in the Settings>Tag Panel. What I am not sure of is the correct names and syntax for the three additional tags so I can be sure they conform with standards and will work with your program and BubbleDS etc.
What should I add to include conductor, composition and group?

There is no "correct" way and no standards for this. You can make the composition/work name long or short according to your preference. The same applies to the group name. The conductor name can be in whatever format you prefer. Whatever you choose to do, it is a good idea to use a consistent approach throughout your library. If you are considering using SongKong to help with tagging, you might choose to follow the conventions that SongKong uses.

Quote:Once I get the additional tags right what should I adjust in minimserver to get it all working?

Again, this is up to your preferences for how you want to browse and view your music. It would be a good idea to add Composition (or Work) to the indexTags property, so that you can browse your library by composition names. The same applies for Conductor if it isn't already there. You don't need to do anything to make the Group tag work.

Budgie · 24-03-2017, 17:59

(22-03-2017 22:40)simoncn Wrote:
(22-03-2017 00:47)Budgie Wrote: Ok, I understand your example but what would you set in my Bach Cantatas? Would you set composition, group or both?

This is up to you and how you like to browse for music. As you have said in an earlier post that you want to browse for music by the work name (e.g., BWV 111), it would make sense for you to add both Group and Composition (or Work) tags to these files.

My post to which you have been referring was intended as a starting point for discussion, not a set of rules for how people should tag their music. The best way to tag music is to work backwards from how you want to browse and search your library and use tags that best enable you to do that.

Quote:I already have puddletag and see one can add titles and fields in the Settings>Tag Panel. What I am not sure of is the correct names and syntax for the three additional tags so I can be sure they conform with standards and will work with your program and BubbleDS etc.
What should I add to include conductor, composition and group?

There is no "correct" way and no standards for this. You can make the composition/work name long or short according to your preference. The same applies to the group name. The conductor name can be in whatever format you prefer. Whatever you choose to do, it is a good idea to use a consistent approach throughout your library. If you are considering using SongKong to help with tagging, you might choose to follow the conventions that SongKong uses.

Quote:Once I get the additional tags right what should I adjust in minimserver to get it all working?

Again, this is up to your preferences for how you want to browse and view your music. It would be a good idea to add Composition (or Work) to the indexTags property, so that you can browse your library by composition names. The same applies for Conductor if it isn't already there. You don't need to do anything to make the Group tag work.

Hi Simon,
Thanks for the reply. You raise some good questions. Will do more work and try harder!