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Please help me start up with tags
04-08-2021, 09:35 (This post was last modified: 04-08-2021 09:47 by MiniMe.)
Post: #21
RE: Please help me start up with tags
(let's push 8player to the background as plan b)
I think I managed to find a good way of labeling my library (no misused tags anymore), and I think I have 80% set Minimserver to also serve properly.
Sort by quality I did with indexTags: Genre, #AudioQuality:Sorted by quality, this so that MinimServer can help identify formats.
Do you still see improvements for setting the MinimServer even more efficiently?

If then the library is up and running well, I aim to get the Lumin app under control (Linn Kazoo app works similar to (but better than) the Lumin app). Drilling down to the appropriate level indeed gives me playlists I look for without duplicates, but this goes with 6 button presses where I'd expect only 2 button presses. Maybe the Lumin app gives too many icons that I do not need. Also the doubling of items in the playlists is somewhat annoying, is my understanding correct that undoubling of such double items should be done by the control point software?
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04-08-2021, 10:30
Post: #22
RE: Please help me start up with tags
Can you post a specific example showing the 6 button presses and the 2 button presses? In all cases, only one more button press should be needed.

The duplication is caused by the way control points enqueue items and the history of UPnP. UPnP was originally designed assuming a strict container hierarchy where no item could be part of more than one container and its parent containers. This limitation made it possible for a control point to enqueue the items in any container without duplication by doing "recursive descent" browsing of the container contents.

With MinimServer, items can appear in multiple containers that are not in a strict hierachy and this means that "recursive descent" browsing by the control point is likely to produce duplicates. The [n] items and [n] albums selections that appear in every container eliminate duplicates, so with one more button press the problem is solved.

The UPnP Search action includes recursive descent. The MinimServer implementation of UPnP Search eliminates duplicates, so a control point could use UPnP Search to eliminate the one more button press. Unfortunately, I am not aware of any control points that do this.
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04-08-2021, 13:17
Post: #23
RE: Please help me start up with tags
(04-08-2021 10:30)simoncn Wrote:  Can you post a specific example showing the 6 button presses and the 2 button presses? In all cases, only one more button press should be needed.
I assume he means:
1. Select the 'Genre' index
2. Make your selection
3. Select the 'Sorted by Quality' index
4. Make your selection
5. Select the ellipsis next to '[n] albums' or '[n] items'
6. Select Enqueue

vs with a pre-defined hierarchy
1. Make your Genre selection
2. Make your 'Sorted by Quality' selection
although surely an enqueue is still required?

This comes back to my original point that MinimServer doesn't have the concept of a drill hierarchy, so you're always going to need to select the index first (one additional tap per selection).

If you make the same selection quite often there are ways you can shortcut this process (tagUpdate or filters) but they can make the initial index page quite unruly e.g. an index that subsets straight to CD, or Blues (or both).
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04-08-2021, 13:43
Post: #24
RE: Please help me start up with tags
OK, so the two-step process is using some other server that supports configurable single-step selections like Genre=Rock and #AudioQuality=CD. This is not related to duplication.
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04-08-2021, 15:03 (This post was last modified: 04-08-2021 23:34 by MiniMe.)
Post: #25
RE: Please help me start up with tags
(04-08-2021 10:30)simoncn Wrote:  Can you post a specific example showing the 6 button presses and the 2 button presses? In all cases, only one more button press should be needed.

Let me try to explain. I use Lumin app as example

Lumin App icons left to right:
[1st icon = songs] shows Song: [n]. --> for me totally unusable as this is my entire lib that does not fit in a playlist
[2nd icon = albums] shows Album: [n] --> nice for filtering and browsing, to move a found (by filter) album I can move album by album with one tap to the playlist
[3rd icon = album artist] shows Album Artist: [n] --> again a view that I wouldn't use (maybe due to my altering of the track artist vs album artist). Regardless it is a for me unneeded view.
[4th icon = genre] shows Genre: [n] --> here I see tiles, one for each album, under which their Genre is shown as an underscript. Via the tiles I can only add to the playlist album by album instead of by entire genre. If I want to play all content by Genre this way, I have to : (button press 1) tick the list icon to go from tiled view to list view and (button press 2) I need to tap a Genre line item with my desired genre to play to see the contents thereunder, which gives me again tiles of each album, so that I can select (button press 3) album by album. Only useful if I want to select album by album that I would do in the old days in the CD storage in my living room.
[5th icon = recently added] shows just a list of recent albums+items. For me unused.
[6th icon = last modified] shows itemized list with latest modifications in the lib. For me unused, but can be helpful maybe for some.
[7th icon = folder view], yes! finally some oversight via the Minimserver database. Again let me try to explain how I add to playlist an entire list of items for one genre. (button press 1) I go to the - self added via MS properties - Genre tile. I see thereunder tiles per genre. If I (button press 2) tap+hold such a tile to play the entire genre, it results in an empty playlist. thus (button press 3) I need to tap this Genre tile. thereunder I find [n] items in a tile for the SELECTED tile. If I (button press 4) tap+hold this tile to play its contents it goes well. So, 4 ticks to get where I want, and I'm confused on the cluttered layouts with all other icons that MS does not serve but that maybe are in the Lumin app?
[8th icon = internet ratio] OK

In addition, (ref button press 4 under 7th icon), if I'd want to create a new playlist for another genre, I'd need to (button press 1) tick in the title bar the selected genre to bring up a navigation quickest to move 1 level up and (button press 2) tick again on the Genre level, then I (button press 3) go to the next Genre which I then tap and thereunder I see [n] items for the selection and (button press 4) I need to tap+hold the [n] items tile to get it moved into a playlist.

I guess I exaggerated slightly about 6x button presses as in reality these are 4x or so once you ended up in the folder view of Minimserver in the favorite app of choice.

Temp conclusion:
a) MinimServer folder view brings the best efficiency, content is nicely presented, still needing avg 4 navigation steps
b) Lumin app design is cluttered with too many icons. I do not think this is a MinimServer issue but rather a Lumin design " nice to have" that I'd call a flaw.
c) Decluttering of the Lumin app could be done if I could "hide" the Lumin 1st icon (unused) + 3rd icon (unused) + 4th icon (as it does not work as well as MS folder view) + 5th icon (unused) + 6th icon (unused) and "give priority" to the 7th icon which is the MS folder view.

Let me know if you'd need more info? I do not think my "added via prefs" tiles for Genre or for checking the audio quality are standing in the way.
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04-08-2021, 15:48 (This post was last modified: 04-08-2021 15:50 by stefano_mbp.)
Post: #26
RE: Please help me start up with tags
You should consider the “structure” of the Lumïn app.
It has an internal database, quite unique among apps, icons from 1st to 6th work on the internal db while the 7th, folder view, works on queries to Minimserver.
This is because you can use the app with a Lumïn streamer with
- directly usb attached hdd (or a nas shared folder, and anyway without any upnp server) then icons 1-6 become indispensable
- with an upnp server like Minimserver, strongly recommended by Lumïn, then the 7th icon let you use all the Minimserver strength.
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04-08-2021, 18:13 (This post was last modified: 04-08-2021 23:44 by MiniMe.)
Post: #27
RE: Please help me start up with tags
(04-08-2021 15:48)stefano_mbp Wrote:  You should consider the “structure” of the Lumïn app.
It has an internal database, quite unique among apps, icons from 1st to 6th work on the internal db while the 7th, folder view, works on queries to Minimserver.
This is because you can use the app with a Lumïn streamer with
- directly usb attached hdd (or a nas shared folder, and anyway without any upnp server) then icons 1-6 become indispensable
- with an upnp server like Minimserver, strongly recommended by Lumïn, then the 7th icon let you use all the Minimserver strength.

Agreed on the "structure" part. The Lumin app may have its own lib and icons, but it isn't as fruitful running on an iPhone. Is the iPad better in terms of overview?

I'm still curious though to get upper levels served well in order to get to the 2 clicks!

Meanwhile I tagged everything and Minimserver is indexing... Can't wait to see the result. Lots of steps toward perfection to go, but still proud of the result Smile Oh and kudos to MinimServer team.
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05-08-2021, 00:48
Post: #28
RE: Please help me start up with tags
(04-08-2021 18:13)MiniMe Wrote:  I'm still curious though to get upper levels served well in order to get to the 2 clicks!

This has been mentioned earlier in the thread but now might be the time to experiment.

Set the listViewAlbums property to 9999.
Refer Here for more detail.

Kazoo and the newish Linn iOS apps enable the playing of all tracks within a specific genre. As does the BubbleDS and BubbleUPNP Android apps.
Just 3 clicks, I.e. select Genre index, select menu icon at end of specific genre, select Play Now or equivalent.
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05-08-2021, 09:53 (This post was last modified: 05-08-2021 13:02 by MiniMe.)
Post: #29
RE: Please help me start up with tags
(04-08-2021 15:48)stefano_mbp Wrote:  You should consider the “structure” of the Lumïn app.
It has an internal database, quite unique among apps, icons from 1st to 6th work on the internal db [...]
This is because you can use the app with a Lumïn streamer with
- directly usb attached hdd (or a nas shared folder, and anyway without any upnp server) then icons 1-6 become indispensable
I tested this with a "regular" NAS shared folder i.e. Synology mediaserver.
with Synology MediaServer the app icons 1-6 do not show, but the folder browsing icon is there.

(05-08-2021 00:48)Alandbush Wrote:  Set the listViewAlbums property to 9999.
done. Experimenting. No issues with album view.
I have reset MS properties to default and have rescanned to see how Lumin app responds. No issues but I like more the album view as Artist - Album Title - Audio Quality rating

(05-08-2021 00:48)Alandbush Wrote:  Kazoo and the newish Linn iOS apps enable the playing of all tracks within a specific genre. As does the BubbleDS and BubbleUPNP Android apps.
Just 3 clicks, I.e. select Genre index, select menu icon at end of specific genre, select Play Now or equivalent.
This does not work in Lumin App.
In Lumins' own Genre tile i.e. app icon #4 , it lists all Genres in the library. If you click on a Genre, it opens a tiled view of the Albums in the genre where you can only select album by album. No top level can be clicked to play all of the genre.
Same happens in the Folder Browsing, app icon #7, in MinimServer>Genre. The functionality to play a top level folder in the Lumin app as such is impossible. It seems more aimed at the cd by cd style. I tested..Linn Kazoo app can play top level folders (as served from MS) with ease.
(I also know from my previous experiments that Lumin app Folder Browsing can work appropriately the desired wat (ref the 4x button presses above) if you adjust the MS properties.)

Upon moving back to MS default config I no longer have the Minimserver-side "counted" view under Genre, with [n] Albums and [n] items underneath each Genre.

Testing onwards!
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05-08-2021, 14:13 (This post was last modified: 05-08-2021 14:51 by simbun.)
Post: #30
RE: Please help me start up with tags
(05-08-2021 09:53)MiniMe Wrote:  Upon moving back to MS default config I no longer have the Minimserver-side "counted" view under Genre, with [n] Albums and [n] items underneath each Genre.

They won't appear if you have a large number for listViewAlbums (greater than the number of albums that fall under the Genre you selected), have only Genre in indexTags, or all remaining indexes have only a single value left after your Genre selection e.g. All remaining albums are in CD quality (assuming Sorted by quality is the only other index).
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