DSD and Double-DSD testing with Pioneer receiver

[Cornell77]

I own a 2013 model Pioneer SC-1523k receiver, which is technically equivalent to the Pioneer Elite SC-75. These receivers will play back DSD as well as double-DSD files from a USB thumb drive. I want to build a NAS and decided to test MinimServer for playing back these same files over the lan. With that in mind, I loaded Minimserver and Minimstreamer on to my 2009 MacBook Pro. I used Kinsky, Plugplayer as well as Pioneer's AV5 app on my Ipad to control playback.

Here are the results:

1. I was able to pull both DSD as well as double-DSD files and play them back through the Pioneer receiver. In this case, I used Pioneer's AV5 app and selected the mediaserver input to play these files. The files were not transcoded but read as dsf and dff files.

2. I was not able to stream or push DSD files to the receiver over the lan. When I transcoded the files to dopwav, I could hear the music faintly playing in the background. The main reproduction was simply hiss. The title of the song would appear on the Pioneer display.

I am happy that I was able to play the files at all. It would be nice to stream them as well, as the Kinsky and Plugplayer apps seemed more usable than the limited view of the files available in Pioneer's AV5 app.

I have captured some log files that may help in this case. I am also not sure if streaming the files is technically possible with this receiver. If it could be done though, it would be great!

[simoncn]

(08-04-2014 16:48)Cornell77 Wrote:  I own a 2013 model Pioneer SC-1523k receiver, which is technically equivalent to the Pioneer Elite SC-75. These receivers will play back DSD as well as double-DSD files from a USB thumb drive. I want to build a NAS and decided to test MinimServer for playing back these same files over the lan. With that in mind, I loaded Minimserver and Minimstreamer on to my 2009 MacBook Pro. I used Kinsky, Plugplayer as well as Pioneer's AV5 app on my Ipad to control playback.

Here are the results:

1. I was able to pull both DSD as well as double-DSD files and play them back through the Pioneer receiver. In this case, I used Pioneer's AV5 app and selected the mediaserver input to play these files. The files were not transcoded but read as dsf and dff files.

2. I was not able to stream or push DSD files to the receiver over the lan. When I transcoded the files to dopwav, I could hear the music faintly playing in the background. The main reproduction was simply hiss. The title of the song would appear on the Pioneer display.

I am happy that I was able to play the files at all. It would be nice to stream them as well, as the Kinsky and Plugplayer apps seemed more usable than the limited view of the files available in Pioneer's AV5 app.

I have captured some log files that may help in this case. I am also not sure if streaming the files is technically possible with this receiver. If it could be done though, it would be great!

Have you tried streaming the files to the receiver as native DSD without dopwav transcoding? It might be that the receiver has a problem with handling DoP/WAV encoding. If you have a Windows machine, you should be able to use foobar2000 to stream the files to the receiver as native DSD. I'm not sure whether Kinsky or PlugPlayer can do this.

When you tried the "push" scenario, were you using DSD or double-DSD files? MinimServer currently doesn't support transcoding double-DSD files to DoP/WAV.

[Cornell77]

Thanks for the prompt reply. I tried to stream both standard DSD files as well as double-DSD files. The standard DSD files were of both the dsf and dff format.

I also tried streaming the files without transcoding.

My Windows machine is unfortunately connected to the lan wirelessly and DSD playback required the MacBook Pro to be hardwired to the lan to work.

Hope this helps.

[simoncn]

(08-04-2014 18:21)Cornell77 Wrote:  Thanks for the prompt reply. I tried to stream both standard DSD files as well as double-DSD files. The standard DSD files were of both the dsf and dff format.

I also tried streaming the files without transcoding.

My Windows machine is unfortunately connected to the lan wirelessly and DSD playback required the MacBook Pro to be hardwired to the lan to work.

Hope this helps.

I'm a bit confused by this description. What were you doing with the Windows machine, and what were you doing with the MacBook Pro?

How exactly did you stream the files without transcoding? What happened when you tried this?

From a quick web search, I couldn't find any indication that your receiver supports DoP.

The symptoms you have described seem similar to those reported by some OPPO users, with non-transcoded DSD files working in "pull" mode but not in "push" mode.

Have you tried contacting Pioneer to ask whether "push" mode is supported?

[Cornell77]

I was using only the MacBook Pro for testing. (I brought up information about the Windows machine as you had mentioned the use of foobar 2000 and Windows.)

For testing the streaming of files without transcoding, I simply left the transcode field of Minimstreamer blank.

I'm not sure that the receiver supports DoP. I'm also not clear whether DoP was developed for playback over USB - as opposed to the lan connection that I am testing.

I'll try to contact Pioneer tech support later today.

[simoncn]

(08-04-2014 19:24)Cornell77 Wrote:  I was using only the MacBook Pro for testing. (I brought up information about the Windows machine as you had mentioned the use of foobar 2000 and Windows.)

For testing the streaming of files without transcoding, I simply left the transcode field of Minimstreamer blank.

Which control point were you using for this test?

Did you restart MinimServer after changing the transcode value?

What exactly happened when you tried this?

[Cornell77]

(08-04-2014 20:09)simoncn Wrote:  

(08-04-2014 19:24)Cornell77 Wrote:  I was using only the MacBook Pro for testing. (I brought up information about the Windows machine as you had mentioned the use of foobar 2000 and Windows.)

For testing the streaming of files without transcoding, I simply left the transcode field of Minimstreamer blank.

Which control point were you using for this test?

Did you restart MinimServer after changing the transcode value?

What exactly happened when you tried this?

[Cornell77]

I am using Kinsky and Plugplayer as control points in the testing.

I did not restart Minimserver when changing the transcode value. Maybe that is the problem. I will retest tonight and report back.

[simoncn]

(08-04-2014 20:46)Cornell77 Wrote:  I am using Kinsky and Plugplayer as control points in the testing.

I did not restart Minimserver when changing the transcode value. Maybe that is the problem. I will retest tonight and report back.

I am not sure whether either Kinsky or PlugPlayer supports streaming native DSD files. You might need to use foobar2000 (with the foo_upnp and foo_input_sacd plugins) as the control point. Because you are just using foobar2000 as a control point, it doesn't matter that the Windows machine is connected wirelessly.

If this doesn't work, please describe the exact symptoms of the failure. It still isn't clear to me exactly what happened when you attempted to do native DSD "push" streaming.

[Cornell77]

I will try these additional tests. I called Pioneer technical support and the questions were too esoteric for their tech support.

Some notes, Buffalo offers a 420 based NAS in Europe with a special version of Twonky that allows for dsf and dff streaming to Pioneer's receivers - or at least to their flagship receiver. With respect to this info, I found this post on the JRiver forum regarding streaming to the Oppo 103/105:

"OPPO BDP-103/105 has ability to play DSD stream via DLNA network. It works on Twonky DLNA server, after editing mime types to following:

For DFF files - audio/x-dff
For DSF files - audio/x-dsf

OPPO doesn't have ability to receive stream in DoPE format (white noise static is present). Is it possible to add following mime types for DLNA server for Oppo's?"


Perhaps this info would be helpful.