Composer sorting question

[magister]

Hi Simon,

Thank you so much for addressing the issues of numeric and composer sorting in the new release of MinimServer.

I've read the section in the user guide about composer sorting. All my Composer entries use the 'lastname, firstname' format. If I understand correctly, in order for things to work as desired (sort by composer's last name and display in 'firstname lastname' order) I would need to add a ComposerSort field, copy the data from the Composer field, and then reverse all the entries in the Composer field. The first two operations might be done in batch mode with mp3tag, I think -- perhaps someone adept with mp3tag could post the directions. The third operation would need to be manual (???). I have thousands of files.

In cases where users have consistently used 'lastname, firstname' in the Composer field, is there no way to leverage this existing data?

Also, a more general question: new users who follow your guidelines will leave the Composer field unused except in a few rare situations. I wonder if it would be better to fill in Composer anyway, although it's not needed under your approach. I imagine that some music software would be more likely to use Composer than ComposerSort. I'm not encouraging people to leave MinimServer -- far from it -- but we don't know how we'll play our files in the future as things change. Or a user might want to play a file on a mobile device that doesn't support MinimServer as well as on his main stereo. Maybe I'm wrong about the general usefulness of having Composer populated. But for me, at least, it's a lot easier to add tags when I first put an album into my library rather than go back and change or add things later. I don't think there's any downside to including Composer, although one must be careful and avoid misspellings or inconsistencies in names. Just a thought.

[DavidHB]

(04-05-2014 16:10)magister Wrote:  If I understand correctly, in order for things to work as desired (sort by composer's last name and display in 'firstname lastname' order) I would need to add a ComposerSort field, copy the data from the Composer field, and then reverse all the entries in the Composer field.

This has confused me, because I do not read the relevant section of the User Guide in this way at all. The User Guide says:

"For example, you can use the option Composer.reverseName.display to display the tag value "Bach, Johann Sebastian" as "Johann Sebastian Bach" on the control point's Now Playing screen"

I read that to mean that if you have a Composer tag and it has the value "Bach, Johann Sebastian", you can display it as "Johann Sebastian Bach" in the control point. If you do this, there is no need to have a ComposerSort tag, and the Composer tag will remain in use (which is, I agree, a good thing).

If this feature had been available when I first started using MinimServer, I would not have committed to using the ComposerSort tag, but I plan to continue doing so, at least for the present. However, I am sure that new users are better off just using the Composer tag in last name, first name format, as magister is already doing.

David

[simoncn]

(04-05-2014 16:10)magister Wrote:  Hi Simon,

Thank you so much for addressing the issues of numeric and composer sorting in the new release of MinimServer.

I've read the section in the user guide about composer sorting. All my Composer entries use the 'lastname, firstname' format. If I understand correctly, in order for things to work as desired (sort by composer's last name and display in 'firstname lastname' order) I would need to add a ComposerSort field, copy the data from the Composer field, and then reverse all the entries in the Composer field. The first two operations might be done in batch mode with mp3tag, I think -- perhaps someone adept with mp3tag could post the directions. The third operation would need to be manual (???). I have thousands of files.

In cases where users have consistently used 'lastname, firstname' in the Composer field, is there no way to leverage this existing data?

As DavidHB has said, you can do this quite easily by adding either of the following to tagOptions:

Composer.reverseName.display

(if you want the reversed name to appear in the control point Now Playing display but not the index), or

Composer.reverseName.display.index

(if you want the reversed name to appear in both the control point Now Playing display and the index).

Quote:Also, a more general question: new users who follow your guidelines will leave the Composer field unused except in a few rare situations. I wonder if it would be better to fill in Composer anyway, although it's not needed under your approach. I imagine that some music software would be more likely to use Composer than ComposerSort. I'm not encouraging people to leave MinimServer -- far from it -- but we don't know how we'll play our files in the future as things change. Or a user might want to play a file on a mobile device that doesn't support MinimServer as well as on his main stereo. Maybe I'm wrong about the general usefulness of having Composer populated. But for me, at least, it's a lot easier to add tags when I first put an album into my library rather than go back and change or add things later. I don't think there's any downside to including Composer, although one must be careful and avoid misspellings or inconsistencies in names. Just a thought.

These sections in the User guide were not intended as "guidelines" but rather as illustrations of how these new features of MinimServer could be used. If a user wants to populate Composer with "firstnames lastnames" and ComposerSort with "lastnames, firstnames" as I think you are suggesting, that's fine as long as he/she is willing to do the extra manual work to maintain both these tag values.

[magister]

(04-05-2014 19:53)DavidHB Wrote:  This has confused me, because I do not read the relevant section of the User Guide in this way at all. The User Guide says:

"For example, you can use the option Composer.reverseName.display to display the tag value "Bach, Johann Sebastian" as "Johann Sebastian Bach" on the control point's Now Playing screen"

Aha--thank you David. I went to the "Your Music Library" section, scanned the headings, and saw "Reversing First and Last Names." That's what I read, several times actually. I did not realize that the section two parts above that, "Tag Values," had the information I needed. I'll go and study that section more now.

Quote:However, I am sure that new users are better off just using the Composer tag in last name, first name format, as magister is already doing.

That method seems logical to me, although in the "Reversing First and Last Names" section Simon seems to recommend a different approach. Maybe I just need to spend more time with the "Tag Values" part to make better sense of what follows.

magister

[magister]

(04-05-2014 20:23)simoncn Wrote:  These sections in the User guide were not intended as "guidelines" but rather as illustrations of how these new features of MinimServer could be used. If a user wants to populate Composer with "firstnames lastnames" and ComposerSort with "lastnames, firstnames" as I think you are suggesting, that's fine as long as he/she is willing to do the extra manual work to maintain both these tag values.

Thanks, Simon -- your reply came in while I was composing my response to David. This clarifies things, and you can now see the source of my confusion (reading the wrong section of the guide).

[simoncn]

(04-05-2014 20:24)magister Wrote:  That method seems logical to me, although in the "Reversing First and Last Names" section Simon seems to recommend a different approach. Maybe I just need to spend more time with the "Tag Values" part to make better sense of what follows.

I will try to clarify the wording in this section to indicate that it is not intended to be a recommendation.

[simoncn]

(04-05-2014 20:28)simoncn Wrote:  I will try to clarify the wording in this section to indicate that it is not intended to be a recommendation.

The new wording is on the website now.