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Music-Guy · (This post was last modified: 05-07-2022 12:24 by Music-Guy.)

Hi Minim-Users,

I'm coming from Twonky, but I have big problems with the licensing there, because due to the change of licensing via a Lynx account a permanent online connection is mandatory.
As soon as the internet connection is disconnected (even when the Lynx server is offline), access to the audio files via UPnP is no longer possible.

Since I cannot provide a permanent internet connection for my requirements, I cannot continue to use Twonky as a UPnP server.

After my research, MinimServer seems to fit my requirements. Therefore, I would like to purchase a licence here.

Unfortunately, so far I have not been able to find any information on exactly how licensing is done here.
With MinimServer, is permanent offline operation possible with a valid licence, even without an Internet connection?

Is it also possible with MinimServer:

to exclude individual subfolders from the media scan?
to declare directories such as "Soundtracks" or "Compilations" as "collective folders" so that individual artists of an album contained therein do not appear in the general list of album artists?

And another question:

I've all my music in the folder structure "Artist\Album"\("CD#")
Between them I have some collection folders like "Compilations\NameOfCompilationAlbum", "Soundtracks\NameOfSoundtrackAlbum".

The folder structure ist as following:
./music
./music/artist_a/album_1
./music/artist_b/album_2
./music/compilations/compilation_a
./music/soundtracks/soundtrack_a
./music/audiobooks/audiobook_a
./music/various_artists
./podcasts

The audiobooks and podcasts are just regular audio files with genre-tag "audiobook" or "podcast".
On all audio files the following tags are used:
ALBUM, ARTIST, DISCNUMBER, GENRE, TITLE, TRACK, YEAR.
Additionaly compilations, soundtracks, and the files in the various_artists folder has the tag COMPILATION=1.

Now I want to browse via UPnP through my music with Browse Tree "Artist\Album".
But under "Artists" all artists are listed that are also included in the collection folders.
This makes the view very confusing.

How can I exclude the artists from the collection folders from this view?

The same problem is at audiobooks and podcasts. Their Artists are listed aswell and I'd like to exclude them from that view.

What I basicaly want is a navigation structure similar to what I know from twonky:

Genre/Artist/Album
Audiobooks
Artist/Album
Artist Index
By Date
By Folder
Playlists

How can I achieve this?

simoncn · 05-07-2022, 14:32

MinimServer needs an internet connection when you activate the license. After that, you can use it as a UPnP server with no internet connection.

As you have probably seen, you need to extend the license after 12 months if you want to receive updates and new versions and/or use the optional MinimStreamer package. Activating this extension requires an internet connection. Also, installing online updates requires an internet connection.

Unlike Twonky, MinimServer does not have a browse tree with user-selectable options to customise this tree. Instead, MinimServer provides Intelligent Browsing which enables you to browse your library by any tags in any order, with a tailored browsing menu shown at each step based on the results of previous browsing steps. Browsing by folder is also available. The user can specify which tags are available for browsing and there are some other options for customising what is displayed.

The best way to proceed with this discussion is for you to activate the free 30-day trial of the full version of MinimServer. This provides access to all the browsing customisation options that MinimServer supports. You can then try browsing your library using the default MinimServer settings. This will provide a good basis for further discussion on this forum about how to configure MinimServer to provide what you would like to achieve.

simbun · 06-07-2022, 11:34

Hi Music-Guy/Music-Man,

I've already replied to one of your earlier posts on the dbpoweramp forums but now that you've provided a little more detail I'll reply on here as MinimServer is my music server of choice so I know it a little better - and because I think it's the best one out there :-)

(05-07-2022 10:15)Music-Guy Wrote: Is it also possible with MinimServer:

to exclude individual subfolders from the media scan?

There's an option called excludePattern which takes a comma delimited list of strings that are matched (just a straight textual match) against the files and folders in the music directory, all matches being excluded from presentation e.g. the string 'audiobooks' would exclude that entire folder structure.

(05-07-2022 10:15)Music-Guy Wrote:

to declare directories such as "Soundtracks" or "Compilations" as "collective folders" so that individual artists of an album contained therein do not appear in the general list of album artists?

MinimServer can't do this directly, but what you can do in MinimServer is create a new virtual tag that can be used to filter the content before you start to browse your audio files by the other tags such as Genre, Artist e.t.c.

As an example, a standard browse tree might look something like this:
n Albums*
n items*
n playlists*
Artist
Genre
[folder view] *

Those indexes marked with a * are a constant and can't be removed but everything else can be customised.

By using GENRE=podcast/audiobook and COMPILATION=1 you'd be able to generate an additional index that when selected would look something like:
AudioType
> Podcasts
> Audio Books
> Compilations
> Music (this would contain everything that didn't match the GENRE or COMPILATION filters)

That requires a little customisation, but we'd be able to help you with that. Alternatively, you could first browse by folder, choose '/music/compilations' and then switch into Tag View to compete your browsing.

Also, rather than have an index (that presented the 4 options) you could instead create them as direct filters (as you have in your navigation structure for Audiobooks) which when clicked on will subset the browse tree immediately.

(05-07-2022 10:15)Music-Guy Wrote: Now I want to browse via UPnP through my music with Browse Tree "Artist\Album".
But under "Artists" all artists are listed that are also included in the collection folders.
This makes the view very confusing.

Hopefully you can see that if your first action is to filter your content to Music for example, subsequent browsing (like viewing Artsist) will only contain those Artists within the Music section.

(05-07-2022 10:15)Music-Guy Wrote: What I basicaly want is a navigation structure similar to what I know from twonky:

Genre/Artist/Album

Audiobooks

Artist/Album

Artist Index

By Date

By Folder

Playlists

One other thing to point out here (as simoncn has already alluded to) is that MinimServer doesn't define drill hierarchies, whereas Asset will allow you to define [Genre/Artist/Album], I have no idea about Twonky but I assume it does as you're asking for it.
With a defined hierarchy you'd select the [Genre/Artist/Album] index and will be presented with a list of Genres, after which a list of artists would follow, finishing with the albums. With MinimServer you'd have to select the Genre index, then select from one of the values presented, then do the same for Artist, and finally select the Album view.

Whilst it may initially seem a little more work it is much more flexible, and with some of the intelligent browsing features it has I bet it'll actually feel quicker.

Finally, in your example navigation structure you have 'By Date', is this a tag that's in your audio files?
MinimServer has RecentlyAdded and RecentlyPlayed which are limited to a maximum of 1000 entries each.

Music-Guy · 06-07-2022, 15:21

@simonc and @simbun
Thank you for the detailed explanations.

The fact that the software can also be used offline after licensing is extremely gratifying.
Do software updates then have to be installed manually, or can this also be done automatically?

I have already set up a test instance with an activated test licence.

(06-07-2022 11:34)simbun Wrote: I've already replied to one of your earlier posts on the dbpoweramp forums but now that you've provided a little more detail I'll reply on here as MinimServer is my music server of choice so I know it a little better - and because I think it's the best one out there :-)

Nice to see you here too. It is very helpful that you know both programmes and their range of functions well!

(06-07-2022 11:34)simbun Wrote: There's an option called excludePattern which takes a comma delimited list of strings that are matched (just a straight textual match) against the files and folders in the music directory, all matches being excluded from presentation e.g. the string 'audiobooks' would exclude that entire folder structure.

That sounds like exactly what I was looking for in this point.

(06-07-2022 11:34)simbun Wrote: As an example, a standard browse tree might look something like this:
n Albums*
n items*
n playlists*
Artist
Genre
[folder view] *

Those indexes marked with a * are a constant and can't be removed but everything else can be customised.

It is a pity that the indexes with the * cannot be hidden, as I have no use for them.

(06-07-2022 11:34)simbun Wrote: Also, rather than have an index (that presented the 4 options) you could instead create them as direct filters (as you have in your navigation structure for Audiobooks) which when clicked on will subset the browse tree immediately.

So, the 4 index entries (*) cannot be deleted, but they can be adapted so that they correspond to this structure:?

Podcasts
Audio Books
Compilations
Music (without the filtered items)

That would be great!

(06-07-2022 11:34)simbun Wrote: One other thing to point out here (as simoncn has already alluded to) is that MinimServer doesn't define drill hierarchies, whereas Asset will allow you to define [Genre/Artist/Album], I have no idea about Twonky but I assume it does as you're asking for it.
With a defined hierarchy you'd select the [Genre/Artist/Album] index and will be presented with a list of Genres, after which a list of artists would follow, finishing with the albums. With MinimServer you'd have to select the Genre index, then select from one of the values presented, then do the same for Artist, and finally select the Album view.

Whilst it may initially seem a little more work it is much more flexible, and with some of the intelligent browsing features it has I bet it'll actually feel quicker.

Is it possible to manually define the elements that are filtered by intelligent browsing?

Another thing I noticed during the test:
When navigating through the given structures, the number of items is always displayed at the top if more than one subordinate element is found.
I have no use for that either. Can this be hidden?

And can thumbnails also be displayed above the lowest level?

(06-07-2022 11:34)simbun Wrote: That requires a little customisation, but we'd be able to help you with that. Alternatively, you could first browse by folder, choose '/music/compilations' and then switch into Tag View to compete your browsing.

The creation or customising of the configuration seems to be relatively complex. At least for me, as a newcomer to the software, it represents a major hurdle, as there seem to be a lot of adjusting screws and parameters.
Can you provide me sample configuration that at least approximates the desired requirements?
I'm grateful for any help!

(06-07-2022 11:34)simbun Wrote: Finally, in your example navigation structure you have 'By Date', is this a tag that's in your audio files?
MinimServer has RecentlyAdded and RecentlyPlayed which are limited to a maximum of 1000 entries each.

My audio files are all tagged "YEAR".
Twonky has automatically built this structure on them:
Centennial -> Year -> Album

simbun · (This post was last modified: 06-07-2022 17:50 by simbun.)

(06-07-2022 15:21)Music-Guy Wrote:
(06-07-2022 11:34)simbun Wrote: Whilst it may initially seem a little more work it is much more flexible, and with some of the intelligent browsing features it has I bet it'll actually feel quicker.
Is it possible to manually define the elements that are filtered by intelligent browsing?

It wouldn't make sense to manually control it as it depends on browsing actions you've taken. As an example, if we assume that your podcasts have only a value of 'Podcasts' in the Genre tag, and that you'd selected Genre='Podcasts' (or used the AudioType index selection we can create) then the Genre index will disappear as there are no longer any valid selections to make from that category. Likewise you can tell MinimServer when to offer as A-Z grouping of tag values e.g. only show an A-Z subsetting list if the list of Artists/Albums is greater than 200 (user configurable).

(06-07-2022 15:21)Music-Guy Wrote:
(06-07-2022 11:34)simbun Wrote: Also, rather than have an index (that presented the 4 options) you could instead create them as direct filters (as you have in your navigation structure for Audiobooks) which when clicked on will subset the browse tree immediately.
So, the 4 index entries (*) cannot be deleted, but they can be adapted so that they correspond to this structure:?

Podcasts

Audio Books

Compilations

Music (without the filtered items)

That would be great!

No they can't be removed, I was just talking about representing your audio filters (Music, Podcasts e.t.c) in a different format.

(06-07-2022 15:21)Music-Guy Wrote: Another thing I noticed during the test:
When navigating through the given structures, the number of items is always displayed at the top if more than one subordinate element is found.
I have no use for that either. Can this be hidden?

I assume you're talking about n Albums, n items e.t.c., if so then no they can't be removed.

(06-07-2022 15:21)Music-Guy Wrote: And can thumbnails also be displayed above the lowest level?

You can specify your own images for the indexes themselves (Genre, By Date e.t.c.) and the values in the indexes (Pop, Rock, 2000, 2010, The Beatles) or you can have MinimServer pass the album artwork up the chain instead, see here for details, or just set serverOptions to 'indexArtwork=all' to get a feel for how it works.

(06-07-2022 15:21)Music-Guy Wrote:
(06-07-2022 11:34)simbun Wrote: That requires a little customisation, but we'd be able to help you with that. Alternatively, you could first browse by folder, choose '/music/compilations' and then switch into Tag View to compete your browsing.
The creation or customising of the configuration seems to be relatively complex. At least for me, as a newcomer to the software, it represents a major hurdle, as there seem to be a lot of adjusting screws and parameters.
Can you provide me sample configuration that at least approximates the desired requirements?
I'm grateful for any help!

It definitely takes a little whilst to get up to speed, but don't let it put you off as it's worth the effort.

I'm happy to put something together for you, but what would make it easier is if I can have a copy of your current profile (so I can modify it and then you can just replace the whole thing), and an export of some of your tags so I can head off any potential problems we could face.

To export your current profile, in your web browser navigate to 'http://[minimserver ip]:9790' then select the 'Profiles' tab, then the 'Export' tab, highlight your profile (they'll probably only be one called default) and click 'Export Profile', save it somewhere and attach it back here to a post

In terms of your tags, I'm only really interested in GENRE, COMPILATION and YEAR, but it might be useful to see what else you have available.
In MinimWatch go to the 'Advanced' tab, populate the 'writeAllTags' option with a valid path and filename (can be literally anything), then click Apply and from the MinimWatch icon choose 'Rescan'.
This will produce a file with ALL your tag names and values in, so it could be quite large. I'm really looking to make sure that Genre='podcast' and not 'Podcast' or 'podcasts' e.t.c
If you could remove ALBUM, ARTIST and TITLE from that file and then zip it up and attach it back here then I should be able to put something together for you. Remember to remove that setting from MinimWatch as otherwise it will be populating it every time.

Music-Guy · 06-07-2022, 18:34

(06-07-2022 17:15)simbun Wrote: It wouldn't make sense to manually control it as it depends on browsing actions you've taken. As an example, if we assume that your podcasts have only a value of 'Podcasts' in the Genre tag, and that you'd selected Genre='Podcasts' (or used the AudioType index selection we can create) then the Genre index will disappear as there are no longer any valid selections to make from that category. Likewise you can tell MinimServer when to offer as A-Z grouping of tag values e.g. only show an A-Z subsetting list if the list of Artists/Albums is greater than 200 (user configurable).

OK, I think I can live with the intelligent browsing.
It's probably just a matter of getting used to it.

(06-07-2022 17:15)simbun Wrote: You can specify your own images for the indexes themselves (Genre, By Date e.t.c.) and the values in the indexes (Pop, Rock, 2000, 2010, The Beatles) or you can have MinimServer pass the album artwork up the chain instead, see here for details, or just set serverOptions to 'indexArtwork=all' to get a feel for how it works.

That's great.
Twonky could only pass on the first album cover of a subfolder to the top.
I would like to keep this function as well.

(06-07-2022 17:15)simbun Wrote: It definitely takes a little whilst to get up to speed, but don't let it put you off as it's worth the effort.

If there is a prospect that my ideas can be realised through the adaptations, I am more than willing to look into it more intensively.
But it would be a pity if I put a lot of energy into it only to realise in the end that the software is simply not suitable for my purposes.
Therefore, I have that many questions.

(06-07-2022 17:15)simbun Wrote: I'm happy to put something together for you, but what would make it easier is if I can have a copy of your current profile (so I can modify it and then you can just replace the whole thing), and an export of some of your tags so I can head off any potential problems we could face.

Wow, that would be great!!!
I have exported my current profile for you and attached it. Also the file with the existing tags.

simbun · (This post was last modified: 06-07-2022 19:39 by simbun.)

It won't take long and if it's not for you then that's fine; it's always difficult coming from another product with certain expectations.

I've just had a quick look at your tags and I can't see any Genre=audiobook.

Just looked at your MinimServer profile too, and you've already done more than I thought you would have!

Music-Guy · 06-07-2022, 19:58

Instead of "Audiobook", I have the genre "Hörbuch".

I had already read up on some forums and picked up a few points and just put them in for testing.

simbun · (This post was last modified: 06-07-2022 21:01 by simbun.)

Have a play with this profile and see what you think.
Load it through the configuration web page and make sure it's set as the active one (from the Select tab).

You'll also need to create the file tagUpdate.txt in /Music/Musik (see it referenced in the Advanced > tagUpdate option in MinimWatch) comprising of:

Code:

@GENRE=Podcast

+AUDIOTYPE=Podcasts

@GENRE=Hörbuch

+AUDIOTYPE=Audio Book

@COMPILATION=1

+AUDIOTYPE=Compilations

This is the code that creates a virtual tag called AUDIOTYPE that we subsequently use as a filter in the browse tree. Audio Type Filter presents the list of 4 options whereas Podcasts Filter is applied immediately. I'm obviously not expecting you to keep both, I'm just showing you what's possible.

I've added Recently Played and Added, truncated Date to just year (as some had full dates), sorted album by Artist and Date so you see the albums in chronological order, and have applied the IndexArtwork change.

For me MinimServer is a good fit because I'm a little obsessive about my tagging and it gives me a lot of control over the way my tags are displayed.
A couple of examples are

I have Album Artist displayed and sorted by 'Surname, Firstname' in the index but in the album view (track listing) I have them in 'Firstname Surname' order.
I have albums that aren't compilations Date prefixed (and sorted by date), whereas for my compilations I leave them as just the album name so that big collections appear in order e.g. Now That's What I Call Music 1,2,3,4.

It's not right for everyone though :-)

simoncn · 06-07-2022, 22:18

(06-07-2022 15:21)Music-Guy Wrote: Do software updates then have to be installed manually, or can this also be done automatically?

Most updates can be installed automatically (if there is an internet connection), but moving to a new version needs to be done manually.