Help needed to track down inconsistent metadata setting

[haggis999]

I have just realised that one of my opera CD box sets is not being displayed by MinimServer 2 in the same manner as all my other opera recordings. My browsing selections are as follows, using the attached MinimServer settings.

Classical library > Sub-Genre = Opera > Composer = Mozart

This presents me with the thumbnails for 5 operas by Mozart. If I tap on 4 of these thumbnails, I am taken to a page displaying just that selected thumbnail. I can then choose to make a long press to get 'Play/Queue next/Queue last' options or I can just tap it to open up a full list of all the tracks. This is the expected behaviour. The 5th thumbnail is for Idomeneo. If I tap that I am taken straight to the track listing, which is not what I want.

So far, I have failed to see any difference in the metadata settings for Idomeneo compared to the other 4 Mozart operas, but something must be different. Can anyone suggest what that might be?

[Alandbush]

(15-02-2021 23:44)haggis999 Wrote:  I have just realised that one of my opera CD box sets is not being displayed by MinimServer 2 in the same manner as all my other opera recordings. My browsing selections are as follows, using the attached MinimServer settings.

Classical library > Sub-Genre = Opera > Composer = Mozart

This presents me with the thumbnails for 5 operas by Mozart. If I tap on 4 of these thumbnails, I am taken to a page displaying just that selected thumbnail. I can then choose to make a long press to get 'Play/Queue next/Queue last' options or I can just tap it to open up a full list of all the tracks. This is the expected behaviour. The 5th thumbnail is for Idomeneo. If I tap that I am taken straight to the track listing, which is not what I want.

So far, I have failed to see any difference in the metadata settings for Idomeneo compared to the other 4 Mozart operas, but something must be different. Can anyone suggest what that might be?

The above highlighted actions and responses appear to be the same.
One is expected, the other not wanted. Confused?

Control point?
Screen prints?

[haggis999]

(16-02-2021 01:02)Alandbush Wrote:  

(15-02-2021 23:44)haggis999 Wrote:  ....This presents me with the thumbnails for 5 operas by Mozart. If I tap on 4 of these thumbnails, I am taken to a page displaying just that selected thumbnail. I can then choose to make a long press to get 'Play/Queue next/Queue last' options or I can just tap it to open up a full list of all the tracks. This is the expected behaviour. The 5th thumbnail is for Idomeneo. If I tap that I am taken straight to the track listing, which is not what I want.

So far, I have failed to see any difference in the metadata settings for Idomeneo compared to the other 4 Mozart operas, but something must be different. Can anyone suggest what that might be?

The above highlighted actions and responses appear to be the same.
One is expected, the other not wanted. Confused?

Control point?
Screen prints?

Hi Alan,
I am using the Naim app to view MinimServer's browsing tree. This differs for Idomeneo by it not having the intermediate step I mentioned. The Naim app behaves in the same manner on both an Android phone and an iPad.

Idomeneo:
After making selection as previously described, and getting all 5 thumbnails, a tap on the Idomeneo thumbnail takes me straight to the track listing, which shows a cover art thumbnail for every track.

The other 4 operas:
After making selection as previously described, and getting all 5 thumbnails, a tap on any one of them except Idomeneo will take you to a page displaying just that selected thumbnail. I can then choose to make a long press to get 'Play/Queue next/Queue last' options. It is only a second tap (instead of a long press) that will then take me to the track listing. In this case, the track listing only has one thumbnail at the top.

Does that make it any clearer? If not, I will try to make some screenshots.

[simbun]

I don't have the Naim app nor any Opera so I'm going to answer in relation to what I know, so apologies if that isn't relevant.
When you click on one of those 5 objects (which I'm assuming is an Album view), I would expect the next level to be a track listing, unless it's not a complete album, so are you sure the other 4 Mozart items represent full albums?

Another way you might be able to debug this yourself is via MinimWatch; in the log window set the logging level to Debug and see what's sent to the control point when you select either of those items (set it to Debug just before you click on any of the 5 items, and change it back before you click on anything else). In the resulting log search for the string 'container' e.g. 'browsing children of container com.minimserver.Server$AlbumContainer@', shows MinimServer is classifying this object as an Album.

EDIT: Setting MinimWatch > Advanced > showExtras to true may also give you some more context in the control point, but if I had to guess I'd say that Idomeneo is the full album whereas the others aren't.

[simoncn]

It sounds like this album has at least one track that does not have Sub-Genre = Opera and/or Composer = Mozart, so you are getting a partial list of album tracks instead of a complete album. If you look through the list of tracks carefully, you should be able to see which track(s) are missing.

[haggis999]

(16-02-2021 10:27)simoncn Wrote:  It sounds like this album has at least one track that does not have Sub-Genre = Opera and/or Composer = Mozart, so you are getting a partial list of album tracks instead of a complete album. If you look through the list of tracks carefully, you should be able to see which track(s) are missing.

Both JRiver Media Center and Mp3tag confirm that all tracks of this 3-disc box set have Sub-Genre=Opera and Composer=Mozart.

One quirk of this 1990 recording by The Monteverdi Choir and The English Baroque Soloists, conducted by John Eliot Gardiner, is that the last track of Disc 2 and the last four tracks of Disc 3 are described as appendices, providing alternative versions for some sections of the work. I didn't want to automatically include these extra five tracks every time I played the opera, so the primary tracks had Work=Idomeneo, K.366 [Gardiner], while the extra tracks had Work=Idomeneo, K.366 (Act 2 Appendix) or Work=Idomeneo, K.366 (Act 3 Appendix). All tracks had the same Album name, but if I selected by Item I could see three different works related to Idomeneo.

As an experiment, I've just tried listing the five appendix tracks under a slightly different album name. I can't quite understand why, but this has resolved my problem! This opera is now presented in the same manner as my other operas via the Naim app.

[simoncn]

Before you retagged these five tracks, were they showing in the list of tracks under Idomineo?

Edit: I see you have Work aliased to Group in aliasTags. Your different Work value would therefore have been a different Group value, although still part of the same album. This seems like an important clue but doesn't fully explain what you were seeing.

[haggis999]

(16-02-2021 13:09)simoncn Wrote:  Before you retagged these five tracks, were they showing in the list of tracks under Idomineo?

When I described the selection process in my OP as being 'Classical library > Sub-Genre = Opera > Composer = Mozart', I omitted to say that my next step was to select all the Albums found by that search.

Drilling down from that point listed all the tracks (the four appendix tracks on Disc 3 had their own Work name and so were nested under a single thumbnail that required another tap to display the tracks). However, if I selected Items rather than Albums, I was presented with the three Idomeneo-related works I mentioned earlier. Each of those only listed the relevant tracks.

[simoncn]

(16-02-2021 13:28)haggis999 Wrote:  Drilling down from that point listed all the tracks (the four appendix tracks on Disc 3 had their own Work name and so were nested under a single thumbnail that required another tap to display the tracks).

This is the usual display when you have a group within an album. The group corresponds to your Work tag because of your aliasTags setting.

Quote:However, if I selected Items rather than Albums, I was presented with the three Idomeneo-related works I mentioned earlier. Each of those only listed the relevant tracks.

A group is an item in MinimServer, so this is also as expected. Each work would have been an item because of your aliasTags setting.

[haggis999]

(16-02-2021 13:54)simoncn Wrote:  

(16-02-2021 13:28)haggis999 Wrote:  Drilling down from that point listed all the tracks (the four appendix tracks on Disc 3 had their own Work name and so were nested under a single thumbnail that required another tap to display the tracks).

This is the usual display when you have a group within an album. The group corresponds to your Work tag because of your aliasTags setting.

Quote:However, if I selected Items rather than Albums, I was presented with the three Idomeneo-related works I mentioned earlier. Each of those only listed the relevant tracks.

A group is an item in MinimServer, so this is also as expected. Each work would have been an item because of your aliasTags setting.

Those aspects of my original interface for Idomeneo were also what I had been expecting to see and were thus not part of my problem.