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AliasTags and Artists - hvaleton - 27-05-2013 11:19

Hi Simon,

Some ten days ago you helped me sort out some tagging issues in the 'Sort by Filename' thread. One of the helpful suggestions was to use aliasTags.
Currently I am trying to find a way to use multiple artists in the Artist tag.

Up until now I've always used a comma separated list of artists in the Artist tag, e.g.:

Alina Ibragimova (viool), Orchestra of the Age of Enlightenment, Vladimir Jurowski

Of course this way I can't index by the individual artists, I would have to use semicolons. But unfortunately, when I try replacing the comma's with semicolons, my Sonos then only displays the last named artist in the Now Playing section, in this case:
Vladimir Jurowski
See also my rather lengthy piece on how I use my Sonos in the 'Sort by Filename' thread, where I explained that I have Sonos play classical music from .m3u files.

In short, I'd very much like to keep the Artist tags populaed the way they are now. And this is where the aliasing comes in: I've added a new custom tag (Custom4) in which I list the artists separated by semicolons.
I added two entries to the aliasTags property:
1 Custom4:Artist
2 Artist:nil

But this does not give the desired result.
Under "All Artists" Kinsky now only shows indexes such as:
Alina Ibragimova (viool); Orchestra of the Age of Enlightenment; Vladimir Jurowski
Orchestra of the Age of Enlightenment; Vladimir Jurowski
Maxim Vengerov (viool); Gewandhausorchester Leipzig; Kurt Masur

Could it be that, because of the aliasing, the splitting of the Artist string using semicolons does not work anymore? (or am I doing something wrong here?) And was that a deliberate choice on your part? Could anything be done about it?

By the way: I'm still very enthousiastic about the MinimServer!

Hans Valeton


RE: AliasTags and Artists - simoncn - 27-05-2013 12:02

(27-05-2013 11:19)hvaleton Wrote:  Could it be that, because of the aliasing, the splitting of the Artist string using semicolons does not work anymore? (or am I doing something wrong here?) And was that a deliberate choice on your part? Could anything be done about it?

MinimServer doesn't support splitting tag values by semicolons. It doesn't make any difference whether or not the tag is aliased. For example, if you have an Artist tag set to 'Artist 1; Artist 2; Artist 3', MinimServer interprets this as a single artist named 'Artist 1; Artist 2; Artist 3' (with or without tag aliasing). This is required to conform to the tagging standard specifications.

To get what you want, you'll need to leave your Artist tags with commas (for the Sonos) and use a new tag for each individual artist. For example, you could use the Performer tag for each individual artist and add the tag aliases

Performer:Artist
Artist:nil

In the previous example, the file would have tags

Artist=Artist 1, Artist 2, Artist 3
Performer=Artist 1
Performer=Artist 2
Performer=Artist 3

and MinimServer will see these as

Artist=Artist 1
Artist=Artist 2
Artist=Artist 3

The All Artists index will show

Artist 1
Artist 2
Artist 3

and the album and track information will show

Artist 1, Artist 2, Artist 3


RE: AliasTags and Artists - hvaleton - 27-05-2013 19:55

(27-05-2013 12:02)simoncn Wrote:  
(27-05-2013 11:19)hvaleton Wrote:  Could it be that, because of the aliasing, the splitting of the Artist string using semicolons does not work anymore? (or am I doing something wrong here?) And was that a deliberate choice on your part? Could anything be done about it?

MinimServer doesn't support splitting tag values by semicolons. It doesn't make any difference whether or not the tag is aliased. For example, if you have an Artist tag set to 'Artist 1; Artist 2; Artist 3', MinimServer interprets this as a single artist named 'Artist 1; Artist 2; Artist 3' (with or without tag aliasing). This is required to conform to the tagging standard specifications.

To get what you want, you'll need to leave your Artist tags with commas (for the Sonos) and use a new tag for each individual artist. For example, you could use the Performer tag for each individual artist and add the tag aliases

Performer:Artist
Artist:nil

In the previous example, the file would have tags

Artist=Artist 1, Artist 2, Artist 3
Performer=Artist 1
Performer=Artist 2
Performer=Artist 3

and MinimServer will see these as

Artist=Artist 1
Artist=Artist 2
Artist=Artist 3

The All Artists index will show

Artist 1
Artist 2
Artist 3

and the album and track information will show

Artist 1, Artist 2, Artist 3

Hi Simon,
thanks for your prompt reply.
I was completely flabbergasted, though, by your answer, until I put on my thinking cap and went a little deeper into this strange case.
Why strange?
Well, when I first tested multiple artitsts by replacing all the comma's in the original Artist tag, this did give the desired result. And using an aliased tag it did not!
Just now I looked 'inside' the flac file (using PSPad editor) and noticed that apparently MediaMonkey stores the various artist names that I put in the original Artist tag, into as many separate Artist tags.
Your reply made me suspect that this would be the case, but I had never before read that MM worked this way.
As you have guessed by now, MM does not "cut up" the Custom4 tag into the necessary number of identically named tags, but just stores it as is: one long string.
I will now try and find a solution for this... (suggestions, anyone?)

Have a nice evening!

Hans


RE: AliasTags and Artists - simoncn - 27-05-2013 20:37

(27-05-2013 19:55)hvaleton Wrote:  Hi Simon,
thanks for your prompt reply.
I was completely flabbergasted, though, by your answer, until I put on my thinking cap and went a little deeper into this strange case.
Why strange?
Well, when I first tested multiple artitsts by replacing all the comma's in the original Artist tag, this did give the desired result. And using an aliased tag it did not!
Just now I looked 'inside' the flac file (using PSPad editor) and noticed that apparently MediaMonkey stores the various artist names that I put in the original Artist tag, into as many separate Artist tags.
Your reply made me suspect that this would be the case, but I had never before read that MM worked this way.
As you have guessed by now, MM does not "cut up" the Custom4 tag into the necessary number of identically named tags, but just stores it as is: one long string.
I will now try and find a solution for this... (suggestions, anyone?)

Have a nice evening!

Hans

From this, it sounds like Media Monkey supports multiple tag values for Artist (using a semicolon to separate the values) and doesn't support multiple values for any other tags.

Can you confirm this with the Media Monkey developers? If this is a limitation of Media Monkey, you would unfortunately not be able to achieve what you want with Media Monkey as your tagging program.

If Media Monkey supports multiple tag values for any other tags as well as Artist, you might be able to use a different tag in Media Monkey and use aliasTags to alias this tag to Artist in MinimServer. If this isn't possible, you will need to investigate other tagging programs that don't have this limitation on multiple tag values. For example, Mp3tag suports multiple tag values for all tags, using '\\' as the separator.


RE: AliasTags and Artists - hvaleton - 27-05-2013 20:54

(27-05-2013 20:37)simoncn Wrote:  From this, it sounds like Media Monkey supports multiple tag values for Artist (using a semicolon to separate the values) and doesn't support multiple values for any other tags.

Can you confirm this with the Media Monkey developers? If this is a limitation of Media Monkey, you would unfortunately not be able to achieve what you want with Media Monkey as your tagging program.

If Media Monkey supports multiple tag values for any other tags as well as Artist, you might be able to use a different tag in Media Monkey and use aliasTags to alias this tag to Artist in MinimServer. If this isn't possible, you will need to investigate other tagging programs that don't have this limitation on multiple tag values. For example, Mp3tag suports multiple tag values for all tags, using '\\' as the separator.

Hi Simon,

Thanks again for your prompt reply!

As I said I'd do, I have just investigated MM's behaviour with multiple tag values a little further.
I found out that MM does support multiple tag values for at least the following tags (probably others as well, but this is what I found so far in a rather hit and miss fashion, again using PSPad to see the actual "under water" tags):
Artist
Genre (the next stop in this quest for a perfect collection!)
Composer
Conductor
Album Artist (stored as both multiples instances of ALBUM ARTIST and ENSEMBLE)
Tempo
Mood
Occasion
Quality
Original Artist

Strangely enough no-one on the web seems to bother about MM's behaviour with multiple tag values (other than the Artist tag), at least I could not google anything significant. Also, in MM's preferences I have not found any setting that influences the way mutliple value tags are actually stored.
So I assume I just have to accept it the way it is, because I'd hate to part with MM. From what I've seen of Mp3tag, it simply does not not fit the bill.

Next, I tested with semicolon separated artists in Original Artist, using
aliasTags:
Original Artist:Artist
Artist:nil
and, as you suggested, this works fine!

By the way: Would it be possible to add an index tag called "Instrument" or some such and be able to drill down a Composer's concertos via
Composer Mendelssohn -> Genre: Concerto -> Instrument: Violin
?

Thanks once again
(this tagging business is starting to be fun!)

Hans Valeton


RE: AliasTags and Artists - simoncn - 27-05-2013 22:07

(27-05-2013 20:54)hvaleton Wrote:  Next, I tested with semicolon separated artists in Original Artist, using
aliasTags:
Original Artist:Artist
Artist:nil
and, as you suggested, this works fine!

I'm pleased to hear this!

Quote:By the way: Would it be possible to add an index tag called "Instrument" or some such and be able to drill down a Composer's concertos via
Composer Mendelssohn -> Genre: Concerto -> Instrument: Violin
?

Thanks once again
(this tagging business is starting to be fun!)

Hans Valeton

It should be easy to do this. Just add Instrument to indexTags and put Instrument tags in your files. Smile