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Problem with multidisc album with disc subtitle - paultaylor - 23-04-2017 21:05

Hi Simon

I wanted MinimServer to display a 2 disc album with disc markers (each album is in a separate folder), it correctly recognises the two folders constitute one album but although they have the DISCNUMBER field set the ALBUM field itself doesn't have a (disc n) so they display as a single album but without the disc markers.

Since I would like it to display with the disc marker so I used the SongKong option to 'Always add Disc no to release titles' for Multi Disc releases. The trouble is these particular discs also have a subtitle and in such a case SongKong also adds the subtitle so we end up with AlbumName (disc N subtitle) and MinimServer doesn't understand this format and now treats the two folders as separate albums.

I could perhaps change Songkong to not add subtitle when add disc, but generally people like to see the subtitle as well as the disc no. Is there a way I could subtley amend it, or a way to configure MinimServer so it could be looser in checking such as just searching for (disc N rather than (disc N). Alternatively it would be nice if I could just configure MInimServer to always display with disc markers if DISCNUMBER set without needing (disc n) in the album title.

Also I noted that DISCSUBTITLE is not mapped to a field for ID3v23, a number of applications such as Picard and Songkong just use TSST for ID3v23 as well, I realize its not an official standard but perhaps it could be added since it is widely used and would give MinimServer access to this value.

thanks Paul


RE: Problem with multidisc album with disc subtitle - simoncn - 23-04-2017 22:02

(23-04-2017 21:05)paultaylor Wrote:  Hi Simon

I wanted MinimServer to display a 2 disc album with disc markers (each album is in a separate folder), it correctly recognises the two folders constitute one album but although they have the DISCNUMBER field set the ALBUM field itself doesn't have a (disc n) so they display as a single album but without the disc markers.

Since I would like it to display with the disc marker so I used the SongKong option to 'Always add Disc no to release titles' for Multi Disc releases. The trouble is these particular discs also have a subtitle and in such a case SongKong also adds the subtitle so we end up with AlbumName (disc N subtitle) and MinimServer doesn't understand this format and now treats the two folders as separate albums.

I could perhaps change Songkong to not add subtitle when add disc, but generally people like to see the subtitle as well as the disc no. Is there a way I could subtley amend it, or a way to configure MinimServer so it could be looser in checking such as just searching for (disc N rather than (disc N). Alternatively it would be nice if I could just configure MInimServer to always display with disc markers if DISCNUMBER set without needing (disc n) in the album title.

You can do what you want by adding DISCSUBTITLE tags for your discs. The value of this tag can be 'Disc n' or 'Disc n subtitle' or 'subtitle' according to your preference.

Every time I have changed the way MinimServer identifies disc numbers in album titles, some users have had problems because discs are now being identified that weren't identified previously. I don't think this case is sufficiently compelling to risk that downside.

When I introduced the current scheme, I considered using a configuration option. I decided to use a tag-based approach instead because this provides the user with the flexibility to have discs of some albums merged and discs of other albums unmerged.

Quote:Also I noted that DISCSUBTITLE is not mapped to a field for ID3v23, a number of applications such as Picard and Songkong just use TSST for ID3v23 as well, I realize its not an official standard but perhaps it could be added since it is widely used and would give MinimServer access to this value.

thanks Paul

I think it is important to conform to standards unless there is a very compelling reason not to do this. In this case, it is simple to add a TXXX/DISCSUBTITLE tag to an ID3v2.3 file and remain within the standard.


RE: Problem with multidisc album with disc subtitle - paultaylor - 24-04-2017 11:02

Okay so forgetting about the IDv23 issue it does indeed work for ID3v24 after all for this release because I have DISCSUBTITLE set to the disc name. However my problem is that it doesnt work for multi-disc releases that don't have disc subtitles because I only set the discsubtitle when the disc has a title rather than just when it is part of as multidisc. I can get it to work for these releases by enabling 'Always add Disc no to release titles' for multidisc albums, but then this breaks it for album with subtitles.

I can maybe change something in Songkong but Im not sure I want to write 'Disc 1' to DISCSUBTITLE as I dont think that is actually a disc subtitle.


RE: Problem with multidisc album with disc subtitle - simoncn - 24-04-2017 11:19

(24-04-2017 11:02)paultaylor Wrote:  Okay so forgetting about the IDv23 issue it does indeed work for ID3v24 after all for this release because I have DISCSUBTITLE set to the disc name. However my problem is that it doesnt work for multi-disc releases that don't have disc subtitles because I only set the discsubtitle when the disc has a title rather than just when it is part of as multidisc. I can get it to work for these releases by enabling 'Always add Disc no to release titles' for multidisc albums, but then this breaks it for album with subtitles.

Adding (disc n) to the album title for a disc would set a default section title of "Disc n". If the disc also contains DISCSUBTITLE, the subtitle would overrride "Disc n" as the section title in the album contents listing, which I think is what you want. For example, these tags:

... on disc 1 ...
ALBUM=My album (disc 1)

... on disc 2 ...
ALBUM=My album (disc 2)
DISCSUBTITLE=My subtitle

... on disc 3 ...
ALBUM=My album (disc 3)

would produce the following:

>> Disc 1
... disc 1 tracks
>> My subtitle
... disc 2 tracks
>> Disc 3
... disc 3 tracks

Quote:I can maybe change something in Songkong but Im not sure I want to write 'Disc 1' to DISCSUBTITLE as I dont think that is actually a disc subtitle.

With the above approach, this would not be necessary.


RE: Problem with multidisc album with disc subtitle - paultaylor - 24-04-2017 11:34

(24-04-2017 11:19)simoncn Wrote:  Adding (disc n) to the album title for a disc would set a default section title of "Disc n". If the disc also contains DISCSUBTITLE, the subtitle would overrride "Disc n" as the section title in the album contents listing, which I think is what you want. For example, these tags:

... on disc 1 ...
ALBUM=My album (disc 1)

... on disc 2 ...
ALBUM=My album (disc 2)
DISCSUBTITLE=My subtitle

... on disc 3 ...
ALBUM=My album (disc 3)

would produce the following:

>> Disc 1
... disc 1 tracks
>> My subtitle
... disc 2 tracks
>> Disc 3
... disc 3 tracks

Quote:I can maybe change something in Songkong but Im not sure I want to write 'Disc 1' to DISCSUBTITLE as I dont think that is actually a disc subtitle.

With the above approach, this would not be necessary.

Yes, but my problem is if a song contains a subtitle enabling the Songkong option adds (disc 1 subtitle) not just (disc 1) and so doesn't work. I don't currently have a way to only add (disc 1) to an album that has subtitles


RE: Problem with multidisc album with disc subtitle - paultaylor - 28-04-2017 14:27

I think the solution to this will be to add a MINIMSERVER_DISCSUBTITLE field which stores disc subtitle if has one, or disc n if does not. Therefore within MinimServer can enable disc grouping for all multidisc albums by replacing DISCSUBTITLE with this field.

Cannot decide whether to make this specifically a MinimServer field or if there is another more generic name I could use.


RE: Problem with multidisc album with disc subtitle - simoncn - 28-04-2017 15:12

(28-04-2017 14:27)paultaylor Wrote:  I think the solution to this will be to add a MINIMSERVER_DISCSUBTITLE field which stores disc subtitle if has one, or disc n if does not. Therefore within MinimServer can enable disc grouping for all multidisc albums by replacing DISCSUBTITLE with this field.

Cannot decide whether to make this specifically a MinimServer field or if there is another more generic name I could use.

I don't understand the need for this. Just setting DISCSUBTITLE (only if there is a subtitle) and DISCNUMBER (always) will make MinimServer group discs correctly. This combination should be "harmless" for other servers.


RE: Problem with multidisc album with disc subtitle - paultaylor - 28-04-2017 16:16

(28-04-2017 15:12)simoncn Wrote:  I don't understand the need for this. Just setting DISCSUBTITLE (only if there is a subtitle) and DISCNUMBER (always) will make MinimServer group discs correctly. This combination should be "harmless" for other servers.
That is what I am doing, but when there is no subtitle and hence nothing put into the DISCSUBTITLE field (just multiple discs) it has no effect unless I also change the album title to indicate the discno. I dont want to have to do this to display multiple discs, and if I did do this using the current Songkong option it then breaks it for discs that do have subtitle because disc subtitle also put in title.


RE: Problem with multidisc album with disc subtitle - simoncn - 28-04-2017 16:26

(28-04-2017 16:16)paultaylor Wrote:  That is what I am doing, but when there is no subtitle and hence nothing put into the DISCSUBTITLE field (just multiple discs) it has no effect unless I also change the album title to indicate the discno. I dont want to have to do this to display multiple discs, and if I did do this using the current Songkong option it then breaks it for discs that do have subtitle because disc subtitle also put in title.

If there are no subtitles, you can put (disc n) everywhere and MinimServer will recognise it and split the album into discs. If there are any subtitles, you can omit (disc n) and (disc n subtitle) everywhere because the presence of a single DISCSUBTITLE tag is sufficient for MinimServer to split the album into discs.


RE: Problem with multidisc album with disc subtitle - paultaylor - 28-04-2017 21:17

Hi Simon

I understand all that, but my point is given a 1000 files I want to procoess them consistently in one go, but in a way that works with MinimServer. It would not be consistent from a users pov to add discno to title if multidisc, unless release has subtitles and then dont add discno at all. Likewise it doesnt seem correct to me to use DISCSUBTITLE field to store non subtitles (i.e disc no). So it seems the best thing I can do is write to another field (that no other application uses) in a way that MinimServer likes for both types of multidisc releases.