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+--- Thread: Help required to stream BBC Radio to Sonore Rendu, using Bubble UPnP controller (/showthread.php?tid=2397)
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Help required to stream BBC Radio to Sonore Rendu, using Bubble UPnP controller - DavidL - 30-04-2015 19:55
I have carefully followed the instructions at "Playing BBC HLS radio streams on a UPnP renderer" without success so far. I have MinimServer and MinimStreamer installed on a Synology NAS.
In the past I have successfully installed the 3 Linn playlists (classical, radio and jazz) by inserting a ".m3u" file into my music library list of folders. These have URLs specified directly (89.16.185. 174:8000, 8003 and 8004). To get this to work I had to disable "Mime-type check" in "UPnP tweaks" in BubbleUPnP.
I tried modifying the BBC Radio.m3u file as suggested in another thread by inserting ";aac" but this did not help.
The BBC Radio playlist appears in the BubbleUPnP control screen but if I choose a station to play the 'play' arrow remains on for 2 seconds before reverting to pause. There is no sound output.
Each time I change anything I exit MinimServer in BubbleUPnP and re-scan the music library before re-testing.
As I already use stream transcode to convert ALAC to 24 bit WAV I'm reluctant to try *:L16 or *:wav as I guess the '*' means everything.
Any thoughts on sorting this out would be gratefully received!
RE: Help required to stream BBC Radio to Sonore Rendu, using Bubble UPnP controller - simoncn - 30-04-2015 21:48
(30-04-2015 19:55)DavidL Wrote: I have carefully followed the instructions at "Playing BBC HLS radio streams on a UPnP renderer" without success so far. I have MinimServer and MinimStreamer installed on a Synology NAS.
In the past I have successfully installed the 3 Linn playlists (classical, radio and jazz) by inserting a ".m3u" file into my music library list of folders. These have URLs specified directly (89.16.185. 174:8000, 8003 and 8004). To get this to work I had to disable "Mime-type check" in "UPnP tweaks" in BubbleUPnP.
I tried modifying the BBC Radio.m3u file as suggested in another thread by inserting ";aac" but this did not help.
The BBC Radio playlist appears in the BubbleUPnP control screen but if I choose a station to play the 'play' arrow remains on for 2 seconds before reverting to pause. There is no sound output.
Each time I change anything I exit MinimServer in BubbleUPnP and re-scan the music library before re-testing.
As I already use stream transcode to convert ALAC to 24 bit WAV I'm reluctant to try *:L16 or *:wav as I guess the '*' means everything.
Any thoughts on sorting this out would be gratefully received!
The * doesn't mean everything. For details, see the description of the * input type in this section.
If you are using the BubbleUPnP local renderer to play the stream on your Android device, you need to transcode the stream because Android can't play an AAC ADTS radio stream. You can do this by removing the ;aac that you added to the .m3u file and specifying *:L16, *:wav or *:wav24 in stream.transcode. I don't have a Rendu and I don't know what transcode setting (if any) is needed for playing AAC ADTS streams on this.
RE: Help required to stream BBC Radio to Sonore Rendu, using Bubble UPnP controller - DavidL - 02-05-2015 10:06
Quote:The * doesn't mean everything. For details, see the description of the * input type in this section.
If you are using the BubbleUPnP local renderer to play the stream on your Android device, you need to transcode the stream because Android can't play an AAC ADTS radio stream. You can do this by removing the ;aac that you added to the .m3u file and specifying *:L16, *:wav or *:wav24 in stream.transcode. I don't have a Rendu and I don't know what transcode setting (if any) is needed for playing AAC ADTS streams on this.
Thanks for the response. I've made some progress - to recap:
MinimServer, MinimStreamer and music library on Synology NAS, with playback control by BubbleUPnP app on Nexus tablet, streaming to renderers remotely (Sonore Rendu) and locally (Nexus tablet).
After experimenting with transcoding options I found:
1) All BBC radio channels play OK on the local renderer
2) With no transcoding by ffmpeg or transcoding *:wav or *:wav24, playback lasts about 2 seconds i.e. the 'pause' symbol remains for about 2 sec until the 'play' symbol reappears
3) With transcoding "*:mp3" playback lasts for between 12 and 30 seconds.
Any further thoughts?
P.S. I've raised the issue with Sonore as well in case it is a limitation of the Rendu renderer.
RE: Help required to stream BBC Radio to Sonore Rendu, using Bubble UPnP controller - simoncn - 02-05-2015 21:27
(02-05-2015 10:06)DavidL Wrote: After experimenting with transcoding options I found:
1) All BBC radio channels play OK on the local renderer
2) With no transcoding by ffmpeg or transcoding *:wav or *:wav24, playback lasts about 2 seconds i.e. the 'pause' symbol remains for about 2 sec until the 'play' symbol reappears
3) With transcoding "*:mp3" playback lasts for between 12 and 30 seconds.
Any further thoughts?
P.S. I've raised the issue with Sonore as well in case it is a limitation of the Rendu renderer.
It sounds like a renderer issue to me. Do you see any message in the MinimServer log when the playback stops?
Can you try playing a native mp3 steam such as Linn Classical on the Rendu (without transcoding) to see whether that works OK? See this section for details of how to do this.
RE: Help required to stream BBC Radio to Sonore Rendu, using Bubble UPnP controller - DavidL - 03-05-2015 12:27
(02-05-2015 21:27)simoncn Wrote:(02-05-2015 10:06)DavidL Wrote: After experimenting with transcoding options I found:
1) All BBC radio channels play OK on the local renderer
2) With no transcoding by ffmpeg or transcoding *:wav or *:wav24, playback lasts about 2 seconds i.e. the 'pause' symbol remains for about 2 sec until the 'play' symbol reappears
3) With transcoding "*:mp3" playback lasts for between 12 and 30 seconds.
Any further thoughts?
P.S. I've raised the issue with Sonore as well in case it is a limitation of the Rendu renderer.
It sounds like a renderer issue to me. Do you see any message in the MinimServer log when the playback stops?
Can you try playing a native mp3 steam such as Linn Classical on the Rendu (without transcoding) to see whether that works OK? See this section for details of how to do this.
To answer your questions:
Playing a Linn Classical stream without transcoding worked fine on the Rendu.
I have saved the Debug log for playback without transcoding to the Rendu (file attached).
The suggestion from Sonore to allow playback was to check the 'Use Proxy' box in the Nexus Settings / Local Media Server menu. This had no effect on the playback behaviour.
After much experimentation with transcoding in MinimServer / MinimStreamer I believe I have solved the problem.
As noted above with no transcoding or with transcoding *:wav or *:wav24, playback lasted about 2 seconds, however with transcoding "*:mp3" playback lasted for between 12 and 30 seconds.
I therefore tried transcoding with "*:mp3;320k" and playback worked fine for all the BBC stations. As specifying the output bitrate did the trick, I then tried transcoding set to "aac:mp3;320k" and this also gives perfect playback!
Food for thought?
I was reluctant to use this type of transcoding as while there will be no loss of sound quality between lossless formats I believe that re-coding / up-sampling lossy formats could have a negative effect. Any comments?
I've compared the sound quality of the MinimServer streams with that from the same stations on DAB radio and Freeview TV - they are difficult to tell apart even though the bit rates of the latter are lower than 320.
RE: Help required to stream BBC Radio to Sonore Rendu, using Bubble UPnP controller - simoncn - 03-05-2015 21:45
(03-05-2015 12:27)DavidL Wrote: To answer your questions:
Playing a Linn Classical stream without transcoding worked fine on the Rendu.
I have saved the Debug log for playback without transcoding to the Rendu (file attached).
I looked at this log file and it appears the Rendu can't handle an AAC ADTS stream. Shortly after MinimServer starts streaming the audio data, the Rendu closes the connection.
Quote:The suggestion from Sonore to allow playback was to check the 'Use Proxy' box in the Nexus Settings / Local Media Server menu. This had no effect on the playback behaviour.
After much experimentation with transcoding in MinimServer / MinimStreamer I believe I have solved the problem.
As noted above with no transcoding or with transcoding *:wav or *:wav24, playback lasted about 2 seconds, however with transcoding "*:mp3" playback lasted for between 12 and 30 seconds.
I therefore tried transcoding with "*:mp3;320k" and playback worked fine for all the BBC stations. As specifying the output bitrate did the trick, I then tried transcoding set to "aac:mp3;320k" and this also gives perfect playback!
Food for thought?
I was reluctant to use this type of transcoding as while there will be no loss of sound quality between lossless formats I believe that re-coding / up-sampling lossy formats could have a negative effect. Any comments?
I agree that this will not produce the best sound quality.
Quote:I've compared the sound quality of the MinimServer streams with that from the same stations on DAB radio and Freeview TV - they are difficult to tell apart even though the bit rates of the latter are lower than 320.
This makes sense, given that you are transcoding one lossy format to another.
RE: Help required to stream BBC Radio to Sonore Rendu, using Bubble UPnP controller - DavidL - 04-05-2015 15:58
(03-05-2015 21:45)simoncn Wrote:(03-05-2015 12:27)DavidL Wrote: To answer your questions:
Playing a Linn Classical stream without transcoding worked fine on the Rendu.
I have saved the Debug log for playback without transcoding to the Rendu (file attached).
I looked at this log file and it appears the Rendu can't handle an AAC ADTS stream. Shortly after MinimServer starts streaming the audio data, the Rendu closes the connection.
Quote:The suggestion from Sonore to allow playback was to check the 'Use Proxy' box in the Nexus Settings / Local Media Server menu. This had no effect on the playback behaviour.
After much experimentation with transcoding in MinimServer / MinimStreamer I believe I have solved the problem.
As noted above with no transcoding or with transcoding *:wav or *:wav24, playback lasted about 2 seconds, however with transcoding "*:mp3" playback lasted for between 12 and 30 seconds.
I therefore tried transcoding with "*:mp3;320k" and playback worked fine for all the BBC stations. As specifying the output bitrate did the trick, I then tried transcoding set to "aac:mp3;320k" and this also gives perfect playback!
Food for thought?
I was reluctant to use this type of transcoding as while there will be no loss of sound quality between lossless formats I believe that re-coding / up-sampling lossy formats could have a negative effect. Any comments?
I agree that this will not produce the best sound quality.
Quote:I've compared the sound quality of the MinimServer streams with that from the same stations on DAB radio and Freeview TV - they are difficult to tell apart even though the bit rates of the latter are lower than 320.
This makes sense, given that you are transcoding one lossy format to another.
Thanks for the quick response and your explanations and comments.
As a matter of interest is there any way to set up transcoding from the AAC ADTS input stream to a non-compressed format? This might give better sound quality as there would be no re-compression of the audio. I've tried the transcodings "aac:wav24;48" and "aac:wav16;48" as I'm aware the BBC encoding uses 48kHz sampling but neither works.
RE: Help required to stream BBC Radio to Sonore Rendu, using Bubble UPnP controller - simoncn - 04-05-2015 22:13
(04-05-2015 15:58)DavidL Wrote: Thanks for the quick response and your explanations and comments.
As a matter of interest is there any way to set up transcoding from the AAC ADTS input stream to a non-compressed format? This might give better sound quality as there would be no re-compression of the audio. I've tried the transcodings "aac:wav24;48" and "aac:wav16;48" as I'm aware the BBC encoding uses 48kHz sampling but neither works.
You can try *:wav24 and *:wav16. You don't need to include ";48".
RE: Help required to stream BBC Radio to Sonore Rendu, using Bubble UPnP controller - DavidL - 05-05-2015 09:32
(04-05-2015 22:13)simoncn Wrote:(04-05-2015 15:58)DavidL Wrote: Thanks for the quick response and your explanations and comments.
As a matter of interest is there any way to set up transcoding from the AAC ADTS input stream to a non-compressed format? This might give better sound quality as there would be no re-compression of the audio. I've tried the transcodings "aac:wav24;48" and "aac:wav16;48" as I'm aware the BBC encoding uses 48kHz sampling but neither works.
You can try *:wav24 and *:wav16. You don't need to include ";48".
As noted at post #3 above I found transcoding *:wav16 gave ~2sec play. I've just tried this again and extracted a debug file so you can see what is happening.
The Rendu plays normal AAC happily but I see that there is no transcoding output to AAC. Would it be possible to add this to the options available so that the AAC ADTS stream could be converted to normal AAC?
RE: Help required to stream BBC Radio to Sonore Rendu, using Bubble UPnP controller - simoncn - 06-05-2015 11:56
(05-05-2015 09:32)DavidL Wrote: As noted at post #3 above I found transcoding *:wav16 gave ~2sec play. I've just tried this again and extracted a debug file so you can see what is happening.
The Rendu plays normal AAC happily but I see that there is no transcoding output to AAC. Would it be possible to add this to the options available so that the AAC ADTS stream could be converted to normal AAC?
The debug log shows that the Rendu is closing the connection for some reason.
It might be that the Rendu can't handle the 48 kHz sample rate used by the BBC HLS streams. You could test this by specifying *:wav16;44 to see if this solves the problem.
If this doesn't solve the problem, I suggest you send this debug log to the Rendu developers and ask them to explain why the Rendu can't play this WAV stream.
An AAC ADTS stream contains "normal" AAC data. The problem doesn't seem to be caused by sending AAC to the renderer, as it still isn't working when you use WAV transcoding.