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Different control points seeing different things - samirevah - 11-04-2015 17:47

I bought an Auralic Aries recently and have been using MinimServer to feed it from day one. I'm still getting used to the Lightning DS app after many years with Logitech Media Server and still struggle with it a bit.

I read on another forum that the Lumin app can also be used as a control point for the Aries, so I installed it as well on my iPad. To my surprise, the Lumin and Lightning apps report different numbers when looking at the same instance of MinimServer, LDS: 2473 Albums, 18,042 items; Lumin: 2412 Albums, 17579 Songs.

Any idea why the discrepancy? Since Lightning is reporting higher numbers, I'm wary of using Lumin since it may be missing some things, but I don't know of any easy way to see what's different. Any thoughts appreciated.


RE: Different control points seeing different things - Peter StreamMagic - 12-04-2015 11:44

(11-04-2015 17:47)samirevah Wrote:  I bought an Auralic Aries recently and have been using MinimServer to feed it from day one. I'm still getting used to the Lightning DS app after many years with Logitech Media Server and still struggle with it a bit.

I read on another forum that the Lumin app can also be used as a control point for the Aries, so I installed it as well on my iPad. To my surprise, the Lumin and Lightning apps report different numbers when looking at the same instance of MinimServer, LDS: 2473 Albums, 18,042 items; Lumin: 2412 Albums, 17579 Songs.

Any idea why the discrepancy? Since Lightning is reporting higher numbers, I'm wary of using Lumin since it may be missing some things, but I don't know of any easy way to see what's different. Any thoughts appreciated.
Just being curious I installed the Lightning DS app.
Not that it is of any help ,but all the controlpoints are giving exact the same numbers (Plugplayer,UpnPPlayer,StreamMagic,CA Connect,Lumin, Lightning DS and BubbleUPnP).

Peter.


RE: Different control points seeing different things - Skywatcher - 12-04-2015 12:30

Do you have any artists/albums with international characters on the name that the Lumin might struggle with? I don't have any iOS device to test the lumin so I'm just making stuff up, I know some control points used to have problems with accented characters. If you can see them in the Lumin app then that's not the problem.


RE: Different control points seeing different things - Peter StreamMagic - 12-04-2015 12:55

(12-04-2015 12:30)Skywatcher Wrote:  Do you have any artists/albums with international characters on the name that the Lumin might struggle with? I don't have any iOS device to test the lumin so I'm just making stuff up, I know some control points used to have problems with accented characters. If you can see them in the Lumin app then that's not the problem.
As far as I can see it does show characters correct.
Is there a specific example you want me to test?

Peter.


RE: Different control points seeing different things - samirevah - 12-04-2015 16:29

Here's an update. I've now run through five library reloads and each time the numbers creep slowly higher, getting closer to, but not yet equaling, the numbers reported by Lightning. I also just noticed that in folder view in Lumin, the numbers are the same as Lightning, but different than what's reported in the other views.

Each reload takes several hours of running before the numbers settle down, so it seems that the Lumin app is just taking an incredibly long time to index the library and is hanging up near the end, not yet reaching the finish line.

Whatever other issues I may have with Lightning, it has never taken more than five minutes to index or update the library, so I must say I'm not very impressed with the Lumin app so far.

BTW, I do have artists and albums with international characters, but that is not the source of the problem. Maybe it's the amount of hi-res cover art I have.


RE: Different control points seeing different things - Peter StreamMagic - 12-04-2015 16:56

(12-04-2015 16:29)samirevah Wrote:  Here's an update. I've now run through five library reloads and each time the numbers creep slowly higher, getting closer to, but not yet equaling, the numbers reported by Lightning. I also just noticed that in folder view in Lumin, the numbers are the same as Lightning, but different than what's reported in the other views.

Each reload takes several hours of running before the numbers settle down, so it seems that the Lumin app is just taking an incredibly long time to index the library and is hanging up near the end, not yet reaching the finish line.

Whatever other issues I may have with Lightning, it has never taken more than five minutes to index or update the library, so I must say I'm not very impressed with the Lumin app so far.

BTW, I do have artists and albums with international characters, but that is not the source of the problem. Maybe it's the amount of hi-res cover art I have.
Just tested: It took less than 2 minutes to reload 750 albums.
No hi-res cover art though (most is 500x500 pixels 100 kB average -all embedded) good enough for Lumin in "large view mode".

Peter.


RE: Different control points seeing different things - Peter@57m - 13-04-2015 06:28

samirevah,

Which iPad do you have? I have an iPad Air which scans my 680 albums, 8835 tracks quickly but my old iPad v2 takes many minutes.

Lumin downloads the artwork and metadata to the iPad not sure what Lightning does.

I like the Lumin app, just leave the app open when you listen to music and it should get there in the end.


RE: Different control points seeing different things - Peter StreamMagic - 13-04-2015 08:08

(13-04-2015 06:28)Peter@57m Wrote:  samirevah,

Which iPad do you have? I have an iPad Air which scans my 680 albums, 8835 tracks quickly but my old iPad v2 takes many minutes.

Lumin downloads the artwork and metadata to the iPad not sure what Lightning does.

I like the Lumin app, just leave the app open when you listen to music and it should get there in the end.

Lightning does not download artwork.

Peter.


RE: Different control points seeing different things - DavidHB - 13-04-2015 12:53

I have been reading this thread with interest, albeit as something of an outsider, as the Control Points I use predominantly are Bubble DS Next on Android and Linn Kazoo on Windows. Both of these CPs provide near instantaneous display of album art, and the content of the browse tree generated by MinimServer (almost 600 albums, perhaps half of which are multi-disc) is identical in both CPs. When I open either app, there is typically no waiting for the browse tree to populate once the CP has achieved network connectivity, which only takes a couple of seconds when the network is behaving itself.

I have been wondering why my experience is so different from that of the users who have reported results with other CPs. The size of the album art may be part of the issue; most of my album art has been downloaded from the web, and the image sizes are typically smaller than those quoted by other users. But the obvious difference is that other CPs apparently cache the browse tree on the device running the CP, whereas the CPs I am using don't seem to do much caching at all (or do it in the background, unseen by the user).

Caching the browse tree at the CP is AFAIK allowed in the UPnP specification, but opinion is divided as to whether it is a good thing. I am firmly of the view that, for MinimServer users, caching at the CP is generally not a good thing, especially when it is used to override MinimServer settings. If you use several different players and several CP apps, it makes sense to keep the user interface as consistent as possible between platforms, and this means that as much of the browsing experience as possible should be managed by the server. Also caching generates a significant network and processing overhead, which has the results described in previous posts.

It would be interesting if the OP and others who have reported results could try out, say, Kazoo on Windows or Bubble DS (Linn and compatible players only)/Bubble UPnP (other players) on Android. This would at least serve to show which performance issues are related to the CP and which have other causes. Where CP caching appears to create performance and other problems, app authors should be encouraged to make the caching optional, or to dispense with it altogether.

David


RE: Different control points seeing different things - samirevah - 13-04-2015 15:57

I am using a Gen3 iPad, about 15 months old.

Interesting to read that the Lumin caches artwork, but that Lightning does not. The app usage screen on my iPad reports 1.1Gb for Lightning, but only 320Mb for Lumin. One might guess it was the other way around.

I'm beginning to believe that caching of cover art may be the cause of the issues I'm seeing with Lumin since I have a significant number of tracks with multiple embedded images. I would agree with David that it would be good to have the option of turning caching off for these cases, as I really have no desire to re-size all my artwork just to make it more palatable for a specific CP.