(05-10-2015 09:52)SRC Wrote:  Hello chaps...Just catching up on this...

(03-10-2015 21:51)simoncn Wrote:  I have checked the XML metadata that the current version of Asset UPnP sends to the control point for each track. Asset UPnP sends AlbumArtist, Composer and Performer information but it doesn't send Artist information (this seems strange to me). I presume it is the lack of (differing) Artist information for the album tracks that is causing the Naim app not to show Various artists as the overall artist and also not to show the correct artists for the tracks of the album. I don't have any information from Naim about this, so this is just my interpretation of what I have seen.

Yes, I had read somewhere that Asset actually sends over a 'Performer' tag for Artist (I agree, weird...)...which must explain the differing display results that end up on the Naim App. This gave me an idea on how perhaps to fool the Naim App into displaying what I ideally want – I tried to add a tag alias in Minim that would send Performer based upon my embedded AlbumArtist tag, thinking the Naim App would then use this for the overall artist (a la Asset) and not resort to the Various Artists display....But no joy. Either that or I was doing it wrong...?

(03-10-2015 21:51)simoncn Wrote:  It is very unfortunate that the UPnP specification doesn't specify rules for what the server should send in this case and what the control point should expect to receive. This means that each server and control point is likely to do something slightly different and many combinations don't produce correct results, as you are seeing. It is also unfortunate that the Naim app shows the overall album artist as Various artists and is ignoring the AlbumArtist value that MinimServer is sending.

You are absolutely right Simon. It's such a pain there is no set standard as such and it's no wonder why there are so many differing outcomes across servers, streamers and their control points. Logic would say that it should all be straight forward – a server should send through a tag if it's in place, in a straight forward manner, and then the control points should show that tag in the correct manner based upon what it IS....But if you've got servers sending out 'swapped' tag info (i.e Asset) or not using/sending at all (Naim US etc) and then receiving devices using and displaying that info in all different ways, then what hope is there for any kind of predictable and consistent result...!?

(03-10-2015 21:51)simoncn Wrote:  MinimServer is observing the normal industry standards (AlbumArtist for the overall album artist and Artist for each track artist) and this works correctly with most control points. I don't know why the Naim app isn't using this information (presumably a bug) and I don't think it would be possible for MinimServer to do anything to improve this situation unless Naim is willing to change things at their end.

I tend to agree. From what little I know and understand, Minim is doing everything 'correct' and the fault seems to lay elsewhere, rather frustratingly...Not only is it going by the book (if only there was one!) by default, but it is also highly tuneable, unlike some servers I've had brief experience with, and yet the display results are still not always as desired due to whatever control points and the way they use the data....To me, the various control points really need to add the ability for more user customisation and options to tweak what and how the information received is displayed...

I applaud Minim for the reasons above and it's extensive abilities seem only to be limited by the implementation of the control Apps. (The only thing I would perhaps like on Minim is a slightly more user friendly UI...Oh, and a Random Playlist ). Fortunately, out of the box with only minor tweaking, Minim is giving 99% the result I would like to see with the Naim App, it's only the overall Album Artist in the list view that I would love to be different....here's hoping to it changing with some further updates/tweaks of the App by Naim, though I'm more nervous of things changing from what they are now and losing what is displaying correctly..!

(04-10-2015 16:57)simoncn Wrote:  This is fine if you want Various Artists to be shown as the artist for the overall album. The OP doesn't want this to be shown but wants to show some other overall album artist name.

Exactly...I want the Album Artist to be just that, the Album Artist. Otherwise, why have the tag!? And if there are individual tracks with a guest artist or whatever, and the artist/record company has chosen to highlight that, then this should be shown on the specific track and now playing screen etc. (Fortunately Minim is giving this 2nd aspect, unlike Naim's very own UPnP server)....

The way I see it, to use one of the example albums I've posted images of here, if I go into a record shop for a Daft Punk album then I look under Daft Punk, as it's their album....I don't go looking under V for Various Artists..! I would logically like my HiFi to display the same....iTunes seems to manage it easily, but UPnP and it's various implementations seems to be making a right hash out of it.....

For me 'Various Artists' is more suitable for an actual compilation album, i.e where there are actual different and individual artists from track to track.....

But then, as Peter's example and wishes show, we all want and prefer different things..! No one size fits all I guess.....If the servers, and particularly the control Apps, all did things more consistently and also allowed for a bit more user control, we just might all get what we wanted though....!

Anyway, thanks again for looking at this Simon, appreciated. I'll sort out a donation to Minim. And I will donate again if, as seems likely, I ultimately start using Minimserver as my main server in place of Naims.

Cheers, Steve

(05-10-2015 20:11)Peter StreamMagic Wrote:  Our demands are not that different.
In my case I want an actual compilation album be shown as Various Artists and in each individual track I want the app to show me the performing artist (included feat. artist etc. if tagged this way).
I totally agree that a Daft Punk album should not be located under the V for Various Artists.
The CA app seems to ignore "Artist" and only shows "Album Artist" or "Composer" if present. (have to investigate this)
You are right about the fact we all prefer different things so it will be very difficult to achieve an UPnP standard covering all our demands!

Peter.