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Full Version: Revisiting the Artist and All Artists Index
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(23-11-2023 13:17)simbun Wrote: [ -> ]Regarding the Artist setup (assuming they're all populated) I would have used:

aliasTags: Artist:Artists, Artists:Artist
itemTags: Artists
tagFormat: Artist.displayFormat={$Artists}

I think that will give you the correct indexing of Artist and will show the feat/& in the track listing.

I don't see how this is better than just doing

aliasTags: Artists:-Artist
indexTags: All Artists:Artists

which is simpler and allows for the possibility that either Artists or Artist might not be populated.
(23-11-2023 13:43)simoncn Wrote: [ -> ]
(23-11-2023 13:17)simbun Wrote: [ -> ]Regarding the Artist setup (assuming they're all populated) I would have used:

aliasTags: Artist:Artists, Artists:Artist
itemTags: Artists
tagFormat: Artist.displayFormat={$Artists}

I think that will give you the correct indexing of Artist and will show the feat/& in the track listing.

I don't see how this is better than just doing

aliasTags: Artists:-Artist
indexTags: All Artists:Artists

which is simpler and allows for the possibility that either Artists or Artist might not be populated.
My point was really about making use of the Artist tag in the track listing e.g. 'Johnny Cash feat. June Carter'.
Obviously missing values will need to be dealt with.
(23-11-2023 13:17)simbun Wrote: [ -> ]it's your AlbumArtist tag that is still a string containing multiple artists e.g. 'Johnny Cash & June Carter', and so a search of the string 'Johnny Cash' would return the results I included in my previous post.
So the problem field is the standard field that I haven't changed?
I thought your issue was with my configuration but if its just the standard configuration then this is a problem for everyone, confused.

(23-11-2023 13:17)simbun Wrote: [ -> ]i
I think it would be worth you trying this with a control point
Yes, Ive tried Lumin now but cannot find upnp search function !

(23-11-2023 13:17)simbun Wrote: [ -> ]i
aliasTags: Artist:Artists, Artists:Artist
itemTags: Artists
tagFormat: Artist.displayFormat={$Artists}

I think that will give you the correct indexing of Artist and will show the feat/& in the track listing.
Thanks, but I cannot work out the effect of that aliasTags setting
(23-11-2023 13:51)simbun Wrote: [ -> ]My point was really about making use of the Artist tag in the track listing e.g. 'Johnny Cash feat. June Carter'.
Obviously missing values will need to be dealt with.

Can you explain this in a bit more detail?
(23-11-2023 14:14)paultaylor Wrote: [ -> ]
(23-11-2023 13:17)simbun Wrote: [ -> ]it's your AlbumArtist tag that is still a string containing multiple artists e.g. 'Johnny Cash & June Carter', and so a search of the string 'Johnny Cash' would return the results I included in my previous post.
So the problem field is the standard field that I haven't changed?
I thought your issue was with my configuration but if its just the standard configuration then this is a problem for everyone, confused.
Yes the problem is that you're storing multiple artists in the AlbumArtist field that's causing multiple matches to be returned. If anyone else used this approach they would also have the search issue.

(23-11-2023 14:14)paultaylor Wrote: [ -> ]
(23-11-2023 13:17)simbun Wrote: [ -> ]i
I think it would be worth you trying this with a control point
Yes, Ive tried Lumin now but cannot find upnp search function !
I find Lumin really convoluted. You have to go into settings, then below your MinimServer library click on Options and enable UPnP Search.
It doesn't group the results it just orders them by albums then artists then tracks as far as I can tell, all a little messy. It's not the best app to try this with.

(23-11-2023 14:14)paultaylor Wrote: [ -> ]
(23-11-2023 13:17)simbun Wrote: [ -> ]i
aliasTags: Artist:Artists, Artists:Artist
itemTags: Artists
tagFormat: Artist.displayFormat={$Artists}

I think that will give you the correct indexing of Artist and will show the feat/& in the track listing.
Thanks, but I cannot work out the effect of that aliasTags setting
The aliasTag setting just swaps the names of the two tags, so it retains your 'Artist A feat. Artist B' (now called Artists) so that it can be used in the track listing.

Maybe this would be clearer:

aliasTags: Artist:ConcatArtists, Artists:Artist
itemTags: ConcatArtists
tagFormat: Artist.displayFormat={$ConcatArtists}
(23-11-2023 14:18)simoncn Wrote: [ -> ]
(23-11-2023 13:51)simbun Wrote: [ -> ]My point was really about making use of the Artist tag in the track listing e.g. 'Johnny Cash feat. June Carter'.
Obviously missing values will need to be dealt with.

Can you explain this in a bit more detail?
Unless I've got completely mixed up, in the Artist tag he's storing:
TRACK 1: Elton John & Dua Lipa
TRACK 2: Elton John, Young Thug & Nicki Minaj

In the Artists tag he's storing:
TRACK 1: Elton John
TRACK 1: Dua Lipa
TRACK 2: Elton John
TRACK 2: Young Thug
TRACK 2: Nicki Minaj

So doesn't what I suggested tell MinimServer to just rename both tags so now the multi-value tag is Artist?
Then he can use the other tag for display purposes so he can retain the 'feat'/'&' (I know that's really important to some people).

There's a lot of artist(s) and album artist(s) going on here which is why I've just told him to rename it to ConcatArtists.
(23-11-2023 14:31)simbun Wrote: [ -> ]Yes the problem is that you're storing multiple artists in the AlbumArtist field that's causing multiple matches to be returned. If anyone else used this approach they would also have the search issue.
No, I am storing a single artist field in the AlbumArtist field e.g 'Johny Cash & June Carter' and multiple artists in the AlbumArtists field e.g 'Johnny Cash' 'June Carter'

Or do you mean I am storing multiple artists in the AlbumArtist field as in the string 'Johny Cash & June Carter' represents two artists, well yes I am doing that because the album was attributed to two artists, if you think that is wrong what are you doing ?
(23-11-2023 14:57)paultaylor Wrote: [ -> ]
(23-11-2023 14:31)simbun Wrote: [ -> ]Yes the problem is that you're storing multiple artists in the AlbumArtist field that's causing multiple matches to be returned. If anyone else used this approach they would also have the search issue.
No, I am storing a single artist field in the AlbumArtist field e.g 'Johny Cash & June Carter' and multiple artists in the AlbumArtists field e.g 'Johnny Cash' 'June Carter'

Or do you mean I am storing multiple artists in the AlbumArtist field as in the string 'Johny Cash & June Carter' represents two artists, well yes I am doing that because the album was attributed to two artists, if you think that is wrong what are you doing ?
Yes I mean you are storing them together as a single string. Earlier I used the phrase 'concatenate the artists together' which you didn't seem to like so I've been avoiding it ever since :-)

I don't think you're wrong as there is no perfect way to do it.

The drawback of concatenating them is:
  • The subsequent artists will always be buried in the AlbumArtist index under the first Album Artists name (unless you use another multivalue tag and index it as you're doing)
  • UPnP search results will be a little messy

On the few albums I have this problem with the secondary albumartist is someone I'd never search for, so I simply attributed it to the "main" artist and used another tag to hold the secondary, then used AlbumArtist.displayFormat to bring them in on the album display, but given what you're doing I know that's not an option.
Okay at least we have cleared up the confusion, but I don't know why you introduced this notion as the topic was very much about how to implement separate multiple artist values ('Johnny Cash', 'June Carter') rather than the usual single value ('Johnny Cash & June Carter').

There are many albums with multiple album artists and many tracks with multiple artists. Whilst I think it is acceptable to remove the featured artists if that your preference, but when there are multiple artists of equal standing I can't agree that arbitarily removing all but one of them is a good idea.
(23-11-2023 22:15)paultaylor Wrote: [ -> ]Okay at least we have cleared up the confusion, but I don't know why you introduced this notion as the topic was very much about how to implement separate multiple artist values ('Johnny Cash', 'June Carter') rather than the usual single value ('Johnny Cash & June Carter').
In one of the early posts you queried:
(20-11-2023 22:52)paultaylor Wrote: [ -> ]- But as long as I dont do anything to mess up the value of AlbumArtist fields I can create by own Album Artist type index as I wish ?
I thought that - given the position you're in with SongKong - it might be worth checking you knew that just because you're labelling an index as Album Artist doesn't mean that it will behave in the same way as the MinimServer "special" AlbumArtist, specifically around UPnP searches but also the other aspects.
I think because you're not au fait with UPnP searches the rest of the thread was us struggling to understand each other :-)
Apologies if what was meant as a quick, by the way, turned into a lengthy back and forth of little value.


(23-11-2023 22:15)paultaylor Wrote: [ -> ]There are many albums with multiple album artists and many tracks with multiple artists. Whilst I think it is acceptable to remove the featured artists if that your preference, but when there are multiple artists of equal standing I can't agree that arbitarily removing all but one of them is a good idea.
Multiple track artists are fine as the standard Artist tag is multi-value so that doesn't cause a problem.

I've just linked my collection back to MusicBrainz and the number of albums with multiple album artists has grown a little although it's still tiny numbers, and apart from a handful the additional artists aren't really relevant (to me). It has got me contemplating the trade off again though...

I've kept the first artist in AlbumArtist in the combinations below that have been flagged from MusicBrainz.
Code:
Benj Pasek; Justin Paul
Bryan Ferry; Roxy Music
Elbow; BBC Concert Orchestra
Elton John; Melbourne Symphony Orchestra
Howlin’ Wolf; Eric Clapton; Steve Winwood; Bill Wyman; Charlie Watts
John Legend; The Roots
Lady Gaga; Bradley Cooper
Paul; Linda McCartney
Prince; The Revolution
Sting; The Police
The Jackson 5; Michael Jackson; Jermaine Jackson; The Jacksons
The Velvet Underground; Nico

I'm wondering whether you're splitting groups like 'Diana Ross & The Supremes' or 'Bob Marley & The Wailers' as I clearly have a lot more of those, but they're groups in their own right, so aren't independent artists - for these projects.
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