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Full Version: Revisiting the Artist and All Artists Index
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(21-11-2023 13:17)paultaylor Wrote: [ -> ]I refer you back to this line
simoncn Wrote:The AlbumArtist index (corresponding to AlbumArtist and/or Album Artist tags in the files) requires a single value that is consistent across all tracks of an album. If you have another field such as album_artists, this limitation does not apply.
Im confused what you meant by this. I thought you mean the AlbumArtist value should always contain the same single value for each song in album which would not be the case if I did aliasTags:album_artists:-albumartist

If an album has multiple values for the album_artists tag, this setting should produce warning messages in the MinimServer log when you rescan the album. These messages should tell you that the AlbumArtist values for the album have been ignored.
If we use this Elton John album as an example, it sounds like you're storing:

TRACK 1: ARTIST=Elton John & Dua Lipa
TRACK 2: ARTIST=Elton John, Young Thug & Nicki Minaj
...

Then storing the multi-valued artist tag in ARTISTS e.g.

TRACK 1: ARTISTS=Elton John
TRACK 1: ARTISTS=Dua Lipa
TRACK 2: ARTISTS=Elton John
TRACK 2: ARTISTS=Young Thug
TRACK 2: ARTISTS=Nicki Minaj
...


These are the results for my UPnP search for 'Elton John' in BubbleUPnP:
[attachment=3065]

As you can see I have 1 Artist returned, and that Artist is Elton John. If I click through it will lead me to all of his tracks where he's a track artist.

If I performed the same search against just this one album using your data I'd have 16 results for Artist, containing:
Elton John & Dua Lipa
Elton John, Young Thug & Nicki Minaj
...

Obviously the AlbumArtist search problem won't be as bad as this Artist example, but I hope you understand the potential issue.
(21-11-2023 17:45)simoncn Wrote: [ -> ]If an album has multiple values for the album_artists tag, this setting should produce warning messages in the MinimServer log when you rescan the album. These messages should tell you that the AlbumArtist values for the album have been ignored.

Okay, but that doesnt help me. I was really hoping you would clarify previous conflicting statements. I will restate the question in the hope of a definitive answer

The Album_artists stores each album artists as a separate field my understanding is if I add

indexTags:Album_artists:Album Artists
tagValue:Album_Artists.default={AlbumArtist}


that will have no effect on how album are grouped. But if do the following instead


aliasTags:Album_Artists:-AlbumArtist
indexTags:AlbumArtist:Album Artists

that will allow multiple values to be stored in the AlbumArtist field, and that can cause an issue for MinimServer in album identification because you said The AlbumArtist index (corresponding to AlbumArtist and/or Album Artist tags in the files) requires a single value that is consistent across all tracks of an album ?

If there is no problem with either approach please explain what you meant by The AlbumArtist index (corresponding to AlbumArtist and/or Album Artist tags in the files) requires a single value that is consistent across all tracks of an album ?
MinimServer does not allow multiple values to be stored in the AlbumArtist field. If you attempt to do this (either with physical tags in a file or by using an aliasTags setting), MinimServer will warn you about a conflict and will ignore all the AlbumArtist tag values, leaving you with no value for the AlbumArtist field.
(22-11-2023 15:31)simoncn Wrote: [ -> ]MinimServer does not allow multiple values to be stored in the AlbumArtist field. If you attempt to do this (either with physical tags in a file or by using an aliasTags setting), MinimServer will warn you about a conflict and will ignore all the AlbumArtist tag values, leaving you with no value for the AlbumArtist field.
Was hoping for a yes/no but I read that as my first approach is fine then because doesnt affect AlbumArtist field, and my second approach is invalid because does.
Your reading is correct.
(21-11-2023 17:48)simbun Wrote: [ -> ]If we use this Elton John album as an example, it sounds like you're storing:

TRACK 1: ARTIST=Elton John & Dua Lipa
TRACK 2: ARTIST=Elton John, Young Thug & Nicki Minaj
...

Then storing the multi-valued artist tag in ARTISTS e.g.

TRACK 1: ARTISTS=Elton John
TRACK 1: ARTISTS=Dua Lipa
TRACK 2: ARTISTS=Elton John
TRACK 2: ARTISTS=Young Thug
TRACK 2: ARTISTS=Nicki Minaj
...
that is correct, however...

(21-11-2023 17:48)simbun Wrote: [ -> ]These are the results for my UPnP search for 'Elton John' in BubbleUPnP:


As you can see I have 1 Artist returned, and that Artist is Elton John. If I click through it will lead me to all of his tracks where he's a track artist.

If I performed the same search against just this one album using your data I'd have 16 results for Artist, containing:
Elton John & Dua Lipa
Elton John, Young Thug & Nicki Minaj
...
Obviously the AlbumArtist search problem won't be as bad as this Artist example, but I hope you understand the potential issue.
I dont understand why your uPnP search would return
Elton John, Young Thug & Nicki Minaj since we are not storing the artist value it is being replaced by the artists value, note the minus

Artists:-Artist

There is no search in Linn Kinsky so I tried *mconnectHD* and *8player Pro* on my iPad. These both have search, but im thinking that maybe it is a local search rather than uPnP search because im not getting results like you, what control point did yo try this on.

I can see visually if I set indexArtwork=none that with my preferred config Artist is an artist object and Album Artists is not, but I dont know if that actually matters.

I could keep the existing Artist (Album Artist) and All Artists (Track Artist) and separately add an AlbumArtists and AlbumArtists index, I will give that a try but it seems like overkill.
(22-11-2023 20:11)paultaylor Wrote: [ -> ]I dont understand why your uPnP search would return
Elton John, Young Thug & Nicki Minaj since we are not storing the artist value it is being replaced by the artists value, note the minus

Artists:-Artist
Sorry, I was attempting to use that Elton John album and the Artist tag to demonstrate the issue you'd face with the AlbumArtist tag as you weren't following my previous example.

If we apply it back to your original example, a Johnny Cash UPnP search would return all track artists AND album artists containing the string 'Johnny Cash' so the result could look something like:
Code:
Johnny Cash                <matching the Artist tag and maybe an AlbumArtist tag>
Johnny Cash & ...          <matching an AlbumArtist tag>
Johnny Cash & June Carter  <matching an AlbumArtist tag>
... & Johnny Cash          <matching an AlbumArtist tag>


(22-11-2023 20:11)paultaylor Wrote: [ -> ]There is no search in Linn Kinsky so I tried *mconnectHD* and *8player Pro* on my iPad. These both have search, but im thinking that maybe it is a local search rather than uPnP search because im not getting results like you, what control point did yo try this on.
I can confirm that mconnect on Android just applies a filter so I assume it's the same for iOS, but I've never used 8player.
I'm using BubbleUPnP on Android, but I think the Linn app is available on iOS which does have a UPnP search so you could try that. I'm sure there are others but I don't have any iOS devices to test with.

(22-11-2023 20:11)paultaylor Wrote: [ -> ]I can see visually if I set indexArtwork=none that with my preferred config Artist is an artist object and Album Artists is not, but I dont know if that actually matters.
The only reason I mentioned it is because I've asked the author of BubbleUPnP if he can add a setting to change the display type (grid/list and size) based on the content type e.g. albums/artists/other. I know in Hi-Fi Cast you can set the album view, but I'm not sure if any others work that way.

(22-11-2023 20:11)paultaylor Wrote: [ -> ]I could keep the existing Artist (Album Artist) and All Artists (Track Artist) and separately add an AlbumArtists and AlbumArtists index, I will give that a try but it seems like overkill.
A UPnP search isn't based on what's specified in indexTags so changing indexTags won't affect any of that.

It sounds like you don't use search so maybe none of this will affect you, I was just trying to make you aware of the nuances of trying to use multiple album artists as I've encountered them myself when trying to do similar.
(22-11-2023 22:31)simbun Wrote: [ -> ]A UPnP search isn't based on what's specified in indexTags so changing indexTags won't affect any of that.
But isn't it based on what AlbumArtist and Artist fields we have. So actually because I do nothing to the AlbumArtist field it should have no effect, but because I alias Artisst into Artist it would affect that search, whereas if I did it with

indexTags:Artists
tagValue:Artists.default={Artist}

and left Artist field alone, it would have no effect on uPnP search ?

(22-11-2023 22:31)simbun Wrote: [ -> ]It sounds like you don't use search so maybe none of this will affect you, I was just trying to make you aware of the nuances of trying to use multiple album artists as I've encountered them myself when trying to do similar.
Actually these questions are not really for personal use they are for my role as SongKong Music Tagger developer. this has features to support MinimServer, I am updating an old MinimServer tutorial I wrote, you can see the section on Track Artist here - https://community.jthink.net/t/tutorial-...ists/11924
(23-11-2023 12:12)paultaylor Wrote: [ -> ]
(22-11-2023 22:31)simbun Wrote: [ -> ]A UPnP search isn't based on what's specified in indexTags so changing indexTags won't affect any of that.
But isn't it based on what AlbumArtist and Artist fields we have. So actually because I do nothing to the AlbumArtist field it should have no effect, but because I alias Artisst into Artist it would affect that search, whereas if I did it with

indexTags:Artists
tagValue:Artists.default={Artist}

and left Artist field alone, it would have no effect on uPnP search ?
Yes the search is based on the AlbumArtist and Artist tags after all the aliasTags/tagValue e.t.c. processing.
Your Artist tag will be ok because you essentially swap the concatenated string of artists out for one with a multi-valued tag, it's your AlbumArtist tag that is still a string containing multiple artists e.g. 'Johnny Cash & June Carter', and so a search of the string 'Johnny Cash' would return the results I included in my previous post.
(22-11-2023 22:31)simbun Wrote: [ -> ]
Code:
Johnny Cash                <matching the Artist tag and maybe an AlbumArtist tag>
Johnny Cash & ...          <matching an AlbumArtist tag>
Johnny Cash & June Carter  <matching an AlbumArtist tag>
... & Johnny Cash          <matching an AlbumArtist tag>
I think it would be worth you trying this with a control point as it'll hopefully make it a lot clearer, and at that point you may think it's not something worth worrying about.
If you're always performing a full name search then the Album results (of the UPnP search) would most likely comprise the "correct" suite of albums anyway, it's more a problem when you're performing a partial search e.g. because you can't type the non-ascii characters.


(23-11-2023 12:12)paultaylor Wrote: [ -> ]
(22-11-2023 22:31)simbun Wrote: [ -> ]It sounds like you don't use search so maybe none of this will affect you, I was just trying to make you aware of the nuances of trying to use multiple album artists as I've encountered them myself when trying to do similar.
Actually these questions are not really for personal use they are for my role as SongKong Music Tagger developer. this has features to support MinimServer, I am updating an old MinimServer tutorial I wrote, you can see the section on Track Artist here - https://community.jthink.net/t/tutorial-...ists/11924
Regarding the Artist setup (assuming they're all populated) I would have used:

aliasTags: Artist:Artists, Artists:Artist
itemTags: Artists
tagFormat: Artist.displayFormat={$Artists}

I think that will give you the correct indexing of Artist and will show the feat/& in the track listing.
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