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I wish to have a couple of stand alone networked speakers that are minimserver compatible to replace Sonos Play 5s. I would also prefer to use the Linn Kazzo contol app as I do with my Linn Akurate so everything is consistent.

Couple of things I would like advise on please...

I think the only contender is the Heos range, are there any others? Do they do something similar in performance to a Sonos Play 5?

Does BubbleUPnP Server work with Heos to enable the use of Kazoo? Is it reliable?

Does the Heos range have forced firmware updates like Sonos that have so far made me replace no less that two iPads as a Sonos update rendered them useless because they couldn't install the latest iPad OS.

Thanks for any advice.

Bob.
Bob,
Your Sonos Play 5s are IMHO very good speakers. I use Play 1s as a pair in my office and they give good sound. My son-in-law uses Play 5's as surround for his TV and also sound good.

It sounds like you have fallen foul of the Sonos upgrade policy which caused uproar in the community and they have been forced to backtrack. There is no way that Sonos could stop you installing a new iPad OS though I have an older iPad that is no longer capable of running the latest iPad OS - but that is Apple policy and nothing to do with Sonos.

I am not aware of any way of using the Linn or Kazoo Apps to control Sonos or any other networked speaker. It is perfectly possible for Sonos to play music from the same music store or streaming service that you use for Linn but (as far as I know) you will have to use a different control point such as the Sonos App on your iPad.

Dave
(15-12-2021 14:51)entdgc Wrote: [ -> ]Bob,
Your Sonos Play 5s are IMHO very good speakers. I use Play 1s as a pair in my office and they give good sound. My son-in-law uses Play 5's as surround for his TV and also sound good.

Yes, I don't disagree with that.

(15-12-2021 14:51)entdgc Wrote: [ -> ]It sounds like you have fallen foul of the Sonos upgrade policy which caused uproar in the community and they have been forced to backtrack.

I have fallen foul of an upgrade policy, I'm not sure it's the same one you refer too.

(15-12-2021 14:51)entdgc Wrote: [ -> ]There is no way that Sonos could stop you installing a new iPad OS though I have an older iPad that is no longer capable of running the latest iPad OS - but that is Apple policy and nothing to do with Sonos.

Hmm. I have a different view of this.

Firstly, I see it as reasonable that Apple call a limit of OS upgrades where maintaing upgrades for very old devices may be very costly or not even possible, provide this is truthfull and not just a scam to sell more kit. Unfortunately, I can't tell which it is.

Secondly and this is just my opinion, it is very unacceptable for Sonos to stop a device functioning properly remotely without notice in order to force people to upgrade software. Sonos do this several times a year and as we don't use the Sonos that often it seems that it's almost 50/50 when we do use it that Library indexing will be blocked - AGAIN.

It is even worse when Sonos iPad software suddenly needs a newer/latest iPad OS. That OS, as I found to my cost twice, may not be available for the iPad in question. That means that because Sonos have forced an upgrade I have to replace an iPad to stay where I was in terms of Sonos function only 24 hours earlier. That to me and you're entitled to disagree, is outrageous and is the core reason I will never buy Sonos ever again and when asked would always recommend others against Sonos.

The key problem is forcing the Sonos upgrade by removing functionality. If I could turn off ALL Sonos upgrades for ever I would be much happier but I cannot. To add insult to injury it has been many, many years sice there was a Sonos software upgrade that was in any way a benefit to me. Allowing getting music directly from the wi-fi was the last one.

That is my primary beef with Sonos. In addition, I dislike the fact that they don't use a server like Minimserver which is an infinately better way to do things, single point indexing - much better. Then we have the old problem of hi-res audio which my Sonos devices will never handle. That causes an issue not for sound quality but because I then have to keep two copies of some music one hi-res, the other standard for the Sonos.

These are the reasons I've had it with Sonos, it has to go.

(15-12-2021 14:51)entdgc Wrote: [ -> ]I am not aware of any way of using the Linn or Kazoo Apps to control Sonos or any other networked speaker. It is perfectly possible for Sonos to play music from the same music store or streaming service that you use for Linn but (as far as I know) you will have to use a different control point such as the Sonos App on your iPad.

Ok, thanks.

I am very aware that there is no chance of using the Linn control point app with Sonos, yet another reason they have to go.

I do however have two Denon RCD-N9 players which are not directly Linn (OpenHome) compatible either but they are Minimserver happy and using the BubbleUPnP server app on the same NAS as my library and Minimserver the two player work fine with Linn contol points software. Not only that but they do play 192/24 hi res and gapless even on wi-fi.
That has led me to think there is a possibility that the Denon Heos range of speakers may indeed work fine like my RCD-N9s but the RCD-N9 is not Heos and I don't know if that makes a difference.

So what I would love to know is...
Do the Heos speakers work with bubbleUPnP Server and Minimserver like my RCD-N9 does?
How good is the sound of these speakers, is it as good or close to Sonos Play 5s?

Thanks again for your help.

Merry christmas.
Bob.
I understand your dislike of Sonos, I'm in the same boat and I'll never buy another, but unfortunately it leaves you with really limited options (if UPnP is a must).

I just wanted to make sure that you knew Sonos does everything you've asked (working with MinimServer, BubbleUPnP server and thus the Linn Kazzo app I believe) except for playing Hi-res audio natively, but MinimStreamer will help you out there.
In regards to the update process; it is infuriating, but it's never stopped working as a UPnP renderer for me, only if I go back into the Sonos app does it force me.

Apologies if more Sonos advice was the last thing you wanted to hear.
Using MinimStreamer to downsample hi-res to low-res doesn't seem like a great option (in 2021). I am interested in hearing more about the HEOS (now Denon Home). Any comments from someone with experience of using these?
(15-12-2021 17:05)simbun Wrote: [ -> ]I just wanted to make sure that you knew Sonos does everything you've asked (working with MinimServer, BubbleUPnP server and thus the Linn Kazzo app I believe)
Well I've seen it appear in BubbleUPnP server as an optional renderer but during a brief test I found doing that highly unreliable.
What is your secret?
(15-12-2021 17:05)simbun Wrote: [ -> ]except for playing Hi-res audio natively, but MinimStreamer will help you out there.
I didn't know that, please tell me more...
(15-12-2021 17:05)simbun Wrote: [ -> ]In regards to the update process; it is infuriating, but it's never stopped working as a UPnP renderer for me, only if I go back into the Sonos app does it force me.
Interesting. And that's using the Minimserver index which can be updated?
(15-12-2021 17:05)simbun Wrote: [ -> ]Apologies if more Sonos advice was the last thing you wanted to hear.
I'm grateful for all increses in knowledge about these devices.
Thank you.

Bob.
(15-12-2021 17:42)simoncn Wrote: [ -> ]Using MinimStreamer to downsample hi-res to low-res doesn't seem like a great option (in 2021). I am interested in hearing more about the HEOS (now Denon Home). Any comments from someone with experience of using these?

Well I would like to try that just for fun anyway I just need to work out how to do it. Presumably, that only works if using the sonos as a UPnP device and not in its native functionality?

Thanks.

Bob.
(15-12-2021 20:06)mightyoakbob Wrote: [ -> ]Well I've seen it appear in BubbleUPnP server as an optional renderer but during a brief test I found doing that highly unreliable.
What is your secret?
I've had it set up as an OpenHome renderer for years now, it's actually been more reliable than it has through Sonos! Unrelible how?
By default it should handle the conversion of the hi-res files for you if you set the configuration up corrently; I believe you'd set 'Max supported samplerate' to '44.1', and tick 'Convert 24-bit to 16-bit', although as I said, you can have MinimStreamer take care of this for you too.
I know a lot of members here use BubbleUPnP server (mainly to hold the music queues), and it's generally well regarded, plus the author is very responsive so it might be worth asking if you're having problems.

(15-12-2021 20:06)mightyoakbob Wrote: [ -> ]
(15-12-2021 17:05)simbun Wrote: [ -> ]except for playing Hi-res audio natively, but MinimStreamer will help you out there.
I didn't know that, please tell me more...
I only use MinimStreamer for applying ReplayGain, I don't have any hi-res so you'd need to look at the online help pages or ask on the MinimStreamer forum for the specific configuration settting.


(15-12-2021 20:06)mightyoakbob Wrote: [ -> ]
(15-12-2021 17:05)simbun Wrote: [ -> ]In regards to the update process; it is infuriating, but it's never stopped working as a UPnP renderer for me, only if I go back into the Sonos app does it force me.
Interesting. And that's using the Minimserver index which can be updated?
I can't remember the last time I went into the Sonos app, and I'm on S2 so I should be getting updates quite frequently. There's no interaction between the speaker and MinimServer until you send music between them, so you're able to rescan the music at any point.
(15-12-2021 21:14)simbun Wrote: [ -> ]
(15-12-2021 20:06)mightyoakbob Wrote: [ -> ]Well I've seen it appear in BubbleUPnP server as an optional renderer but during a brief test I found doing that highly unreliable.
What is your secret?
I've had it set up as an OpenHome renderer for years now, it's actually been more reliable than it has through Sonos! Unrelible how?
By default it should handle the conversion of the hi-res files for you if you set the configuration up corrently; I believe you'd set 'Max supported samplerate' to '44.1', and tick 'Convert 24-bit to 16-bit', although as I said, you can have MinimStreamer take care of this for you too.
I know a lot of members here use BubbleUPnP server (mainly to hold the music queues), and it's generally well regarded, plus the author is very responsive so it might be worth asking if you're having problems.

(15-12-2021 20:06)mightyoakbob Wrote: [ -> ]
(15-12-2021 17:05)simbun Wrote: [ -> ]except for playing Hi-res audio natively, but MinimStreamer will help you out there.
I didn't know that, please tell me more...
I only use MinimStreamer for applying ReplayGain, I don't have any hi-res so you'd need to look at the online help pages or ask on the MinimStreamer forum for the specific configuration settting.

I've been using Minimserver for my Linn and BubbleUPnP server for my Denon players for years and that works very well. I thought I had but in fact I'd never used BubbleUPnP to drive Sonos. Thinking about it, what I think happened was my wife used the Sonos App and attempted to play music from the UPnP server and it worked very briefly.

Over christmas I've been having a good play with ffmpeg and got HD tracks playing on Sonos even though it's just 44k1 really. But I don't need two copies of HD music on the server any longer.

I did look at using Minimstreamer but to be honest it is so complicated I just couldn't understand it and I didn't see any way to associate down conversion with the particular players that need it. So I used ffmpeg and that did the job easily in seconds.

I think my brain does not work the same way as the instruction writer as I don't get on well with any Minimserver instructions. Despite several serious attempts the config instructions for "properties" are still regrettably way beyond my ability to understand them. Not spoon fed enough probably.

So am I correct in thinking that if I don't run the S1 App things on Sonos will stay the same with no forced updates. Anyone know if there is a way you can play streaming radio on Sonos without getting a software update?

Thanks everyone and happy new year.

Bob.
(31-12-2021 15:06)mightyoakbob Wrote: [ -> ]So am I correct in thinking that if I don't run the S1 App things on Sonos will stay the same with no forced updates. Anyone know if there is a way you can play streaming radio on Sonos without getting a software update?

I have a few Sonos speakers in an S2 system and haven't been forced to update yet. In an S1 system I believe the only updates you'll receive now are security updates, which shouldn't be very often and are quite important so you'll need to check in from time to time.

If your speakers natively support the radio station you can simply create a playlist file, which is just a text file with a m3u extension, place it somewhere within your content directory and you'll be able to select a stream from the '[n] playlists' index item that will appear in the MinimServer browse tree.

Here's one I've configured for the BBC streams that work natively with Sonos:
Code:
#EXTM3U

#EXTINF:-1, BBC Radio 1
http://a.files.bbci.co.uk/media/live/manifesto/audio/simulcast/hls/uk/sbr_high/ak/bbc_radio_one.m3u8
#EXTINF:-1, BBC Radio 1Xtra
http://a.files.bbci.co.uk/media/live/manifesto/audio/simulcast/hls/uk/sbr_high/ak/bbc_1xtra.m3u8
#EXTINF:-1, BBC Radio 2
http://a.files.bbci.co.uk/media/live/manifesto/audio/simulcast/hls/uk/sbr_high/ak/bbc_radio_two.m3u8
#EXTINF:-1, BBC Radio 3
http://a.files.bbci.co.uk/media/live/manifesto/audio/simulcast/hls/uk/sbr_high/ak/bbc_radio_three.m3u8
#EXTINF:-1, BBC Radio 4
http://a.files.bbci.co.uk/media/live/manifesto/audio/simulcast/hls/uk/sbr_high/ak/bbc_radio_fourfm.m3u8
#EXTINF:-1, BBC Radio 5 Live
http://a.files.bbci.co.uk/media/live/manifesto/audio/simulcast/hls/uk/sbr_high/ak/bbc_radio_five_live.m3u8
#EXTINF:-1, BBC Radio 5 Live Sports Extra
http://a.files.bbci.co.uk/media/live/manifesto/audio/simulcast/hls/uk/sbr_high/ak/bbc_radio_five_live_sports_extra.m3u8
#EXTINF:-1, BBC Radio 6 Music
http://a.files.bbci.co.uk/media/live/manifesto/audio/simulcast/hls/uk/sbr_high/ak/bbc_6music.m3u8

These stations will only work if you're in the UK; if you're not pick one of the worldwide streams.


If you add additional streams and they don't play directly you'll need MinimStreamer to convert them on the fly for you (or BubbleUPnP server might transcode them for you depending on how you've configured it).

You can also add them directly to BubbleUPnP by:
Go to the playlist tab, click on the three vertical dots at the top right of the screen and select 'How to add Internet Radio'.
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